Harold and Agnes Carpenter

[Rob813]

I was just thinking about Karen and Richard's parents Harold and Agnes. They're both deceased now. I was wondering what they thought about their children's success? How did two very middle class, consevative people feel about their son and daughter reaching the heights that they did?

[Rob813]

Yeah I think they were probably overprotective. I read that Richard blew his lid while vacationing with Karen and his parents in Hawaii. He and Karen stayed at a house that was provided for them. Richard put his parents up in a swank hotel. His parents were furious with him for not including them in the house. He exploded in anger in response to their treating him like he was twelve.

[Rick Henry]

Wasn't that vacation in Mexico?

I think it was more Agnes that didn't want her children to leave the nest.

[Rob813]

Yeah Dave things change when we are parents vs. being somebody's child. Sorry that your son is dancing with the drugs devil. It must be difficult for you to watch. Probably a helpless kind of feeling.

[Rob813]

I'm not sure about Mexico vs. Hawaii, but you're right it was probably more Agnes than Harold holding them tightly. I know how difficult it has been for my mom to let go. I've reached the point now where it doesn't bother me anymore. Someday she'll be gone and I'll wish she was still trying to hold on.

[Moe]

I am sure the Carpenters' parents were extrememly proud of their kids, but they seemed to be too close to them and too much in their lives. I come from a family like this, but frotunately did leave and escape the family mindset. I look at it as just getting away and growing up. I think Karen really needed to do this.

[beaner]

In the movie, Agnes is portrayed as not being very comfortable with their early success and all the bad that can come along with it. Understandable, of course, but it did seem that she was the more protective one, very protective, if you will, but loved both very much. Her Dad was portrayed as an easy going guy who loved his children very much too.

[enigma]

They had to be very proud and excited about their childrens success remember Harald worked 2 jobs to pay for music lessons for both Richard and Karen. They wanted their children to succeed badly and when it happened they had to be happy that all their hard work and support for Richard and Karen paid off. Like Dave said we can only guess but can't imagine them being anything but happy for their childrens success I know I would be.

[Mariah Andrews]

The main thing is, Karen and Richard were close to Mom and Dad from day one to the final day. My parents, we talk occasionally but they do not accept me for how I turned out. They would accept a womanizing, con-artist like my Uncle Zack but they would never accept me. They would accept him for breaking the law but not accept me. My grandmother mentally abused my uncle Frank. He was tortured and abused in a million different ways to where he became mentally very numb, gained massive weight due to prescription meds and then died. To me, this is murder but no jury could convict my grandmother because there is no visible proof. She showed NO EMOTION at his funeral. All she talked about was taking a trip back to Asia with his life insurance money. This is sick. Yet, I have to bow down and still respect this (rhymes with witch). Holy (rhymes with duck).

Yet, if I was famous like Karen and Richard, maybe they would accept me. So long that I buy them a million dollar mansion. Maybe that's the only reason why Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner's parents accept him so well. Money talks.

For those of you who believe in God, pray that my parents will accept me the way I want to be accepted. For atheists like myself, only hope that time will change it all.

[Mariah Andrews]

The main thing is, Karen and Richard were close to Mom and Dad from day one to the final day. My parents, we talk occasionally but they do not accept me for how I turned out. They would accept a womanizing, con-artist like my Uncle Zack but they would never accept me. They would accept him for breaking the law but not accept me. My grandmother mentally abused my uncle Frank. He was tortured and abused in a million different ways to where he became mentally very numb, gained massive weight due to prescription meds and then died. To me, this is murder but no jury could convict my grandmother because there is no visible proof. She showed NO EMOTION at his funeral. All she talked about was taking a trip back to Asia with his life insurance money. This is sick. Yet, I have to bow down and still respect this (rhymes with witch). Holy (rhymes with duck).

Yet, if I was famous like Karen and Richard, maybe they would accept me. So long that I buy them a million dollar mansion. Maybe that's the only reason why Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner's parents accept him so well. Money talks.

For those of you who believe in God, pray that my parents will accept me the way I want to be accepted. For atheists like myself, only hope that time will change it all.

[Federico Cruz]

Yours is a very hard case...
I don't know the others in this forum, but you can count with me, Mariah, and pray to Lord that SOMEDAY your parents accept you.

[karen69roland]

TIME..., Mariah.


[glow=red,2,300]I love you Karen...[/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]

[shadow=red,left,300]Roland C.[/shadow]
[shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]

[Mariah Andrews]

Thank you for your loving support, y'all. A Carpenters fan in need could sure use it right now. The past 48 hours for me have been the most depressing in ages.

[enigma]

Mariah
The fact that you are different makes you special. It is sad your parents do not see what I have seen so far in this forum. I enjoy your insights and no matter what your love of Karen makes you even more special and endears you to many members of this forum including myself. I consider this forum a family in a sense because we all love Karen and Richard. Diversity and difference in life make it more interesting and Mariah since you first came to this forum you have been interesting and a breath of fresh air. There is a great diversity of poeple in this forum whether it be nationality, sex, age or lifestyle and it makes it dynamic and interesting to hear many peoples thoughts from many walks of life. We are all united by one simple thing our love for the Carpenters and we are proof that the Carpenters are universal and timeless. You always have a place here Mariah where you are accepted by all never forget that. Anytime life brings you down feel free to open a dialogue with people who care. Take care and hold your head high. (this goes for any of you here)

[karen69roland]

I think that you(Mariah) have always something interesthing to say.
You are sensitive, intelligent and you have a very good sense of humour.


[glow=red,2,300]I love you Karen...[/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]

[shadow=red,left,300]Roland C.[/shadow]
[shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]

[Rob813]

So sorry about your parents Mariah. Unfortunately alot of our parents have had expectiations of us which we could not fulfill. The truth is it is NOT our problem. We were not born to make our parents feel fulfilled or complete. This issue (of who you are) is not about your parents (even though they are making it out to be that way). This issue is about YOU. Sexuality is a very complex part of who we are. It defies pretty labels and neat parameters. Your struggle to come to terms with feeling different from others is such a personal journey. You need people to support you along the way. Fortunately you have people like us to be that kind of support.

Wouldn't Harold and Agnes be surprised to know that their two children's lives and career have attracted all of us together; and out of this we are strenghtening each other and helping each other to love ourselves more.

This brings me to my philosophy about life which goes something like this. My purpose in life is to make, as healthy as possible, choices for myself as I take care of myself. Secondly, it is to make the burden of others somewhat lighter so they too can take care of themselves.

If we do this every day, we make our lives better and we also make the lives of those around better too. So, everybody wins!!!

With that having been said, Mariah thank you for sharing so opening about yourself. You inspire me to be more open about myself. You are a precious gift.

[Mariah Andrews]

Thanks y'all. Y'all are my friends. It's like my parents had expectations of me before I was even born. Why I had problems throughout my lifetime believing in God was because my mother told me that when she was pregnant with me, she prayed to God asking him that I am a boy and only a boy, nothing else. Look what happened. Since the age of 3 or 4 I rejected my born sex. I spent all my life fighting it until about 1995 when I decided that I better start making plans. By 1997 I had begun transition.

Richard and Karen I envied in many ways, knowing how they had good ties with their parents, like I always wished I had. I cannot say that all times were bad. Now try to imagine if Richard wanted to be a girl or Karen wanted to become a boy. How would Harold or Agnes Carpenter accept them? They were already raised in a strict home.

Then again, I wasn't raised entirely by my parents. My father's mother, an ex-Catholic nun, did most of my rearing between ages 8 and 12. I got grounded for nothing, punished whenever they felt like punishing me, grounded one summer for having friends of a certain race. I went from an A/B student to a D/F student by the 7th grade. I was expelled from a Catholic school for being mentally ill. This woman was against everything I did. When I was learning the guitar at the age of 10, she swayed me away from it and insisted that I must learn piano. I did okay at it, but she wanted me to become a Liberace or something. (She hated homosexuals if she knew them personally but she loved Liberace and Elton John musicwise.) I refused to play piano for years because I felt that I was forced to play it. I didn't learn to love keyboard instruments until about 1990 when I used to work at a downs' syndrome clinic after school as a volunteer and suddenly began to learn the piano on my own. Then I fell in love with the instrument, considering how I resented the piano from 1986 to 1989.
But nobody in my family took me seriously when it came to playing an instrument until about 1990, when I was 14 and suddenly learned more guitar chords. I took them by suprise when I learned how to play songs from the 007 (James Bond) movies on it! (By ear, and perfect chord pitch)

Richard and Karen at least had supportive family. Imagine how they could have turned out if Harold and Agnes were cold and abusive. What kind of music could have they ended up with if that were the case?

[Rob813]

Yes, it's true Karen and Richard had two very supportive and encouraging parents. In the end, however each of our parents did the best they could with what they had to work with. After all, they couldn't give us something they didn't have. Most of our parents were wounded by THEIR parents. Of course, for us, the damage is done. Our job is to work out what we are left with. Nothing is impossible; with persistence and wisdom we can make healthy choices for ourselves. Our lives CAN get better! Just don't give up; rest if you must, BUT don't give up!!!