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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 6, 2005 23:05:01 GMT -5
[glow=yellow,2,300]  [/glow] I've always been one for the experimental side of music. I enjoy hearing sounds used to create other sounds. I enjoy oddball time signatures and quirky rhythms. I also love intricate complex chord progressions. The Carpenters have a lot of these aspects in their music especially in the jazz influenced songs they recorded as a group and also some of the jazz songs karen recorded for her solo album. "B'wana She No Home" is a fine example of a great jazz jam tune. The instrumentation all works together quite well. And this song was recorded live in the studio. What you hear on record is what you would have heard if you were in the studio. It was not pieced to gether track by track like most Carpenters songs were, but recorded live. I especially love Tony Peluso's driving guitar rhythms in this song. You really have to listen close to hear all the different chord progressions Peluso used in this song. I also love "This Masquerade". Not only is this one of karen's most dark and haunting vocals ever. The musicanship is outstanding. Fresh, clear and dynamic in it's mysterious dark sound. The best part of this song is Karen's intricate drumwork. She uses many standard jazz progressions similar to what you may have heard Buddy Rich or Gene Krupa doing. [glow=orange,2,300]  [/glow] |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 7, 2005 20:46:22 GMT -5
 Rick, I think Masquerade has to be my all time favorite Carpenters interpretation. Of course Karen's voice is what truly tells the story of this song. I so enjoy listening to Richard's piano solo on this one - I think it was the first time I really heard him cut loose with a nice, simple but very important "improvised" lead on a Carpenters record, and being a keyboardist, I especially appreciated this from him. It reminded me of listening to Bill Evans - very mellow, quite simple, but oh, just right for the piece. Masquerade has many fascets to it. The background vocals make it rise and fall in just the right places, and add so much emotion to the song. It's a beautifully crafted song, and it's one of my favorite of Richard's arrangements, because of it's simplicity. Cool....I just noticed I've become a certified platinum member -  
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Post by enigma on Mar 7, 2005 23:07:07 GMT -5
This Masquerade is a great song and I do love it but I also love All I Can Do both are such different songs but are both in the jazz format. I also love when Karen goes a little jazzy on her songs it was as if she was born to sing jazz...yet another way in which Karen is so remarkable.
&^ *%
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 8, 2005 10:31:22 GMT -5
$@ Enigma, I am so glad you mentioned "All I Can Do". This is the epitome of a great quirky jazz number. It has a great and somewhat offbeat timing. Karen's drumwork is excellent here. The bass line is also outstanding. I would have loved to hear the Carpenters do more oddball songs like this one.   |
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 8, 2005 11:22:50 GMT -5
 All those Jazzy songs you've all mentionned, so far, are great.
The Carpenters, even we hear them do simple songs, have often a Jazzy flavor to their songs..., mostly because of the chords voicing...
Take, for example, a song like *All You Get From Love Is A Love Song*..., it's half-way between a Jazz song and a Pop song. It's a Jazzy-Pop song..., very colorful.
Something I would've LOVE to hear more of them is pieces like the little Jazz jingle for KFRC Radio(1973, I think)..., man, this little piece of music is simply gorgeous. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by cam83 on Mar 8, 2005 13:24:19 GMT -5
I always felt that that 1973 KFRC jingle, to me, anyway, sounded funky...almost disco-ish.
Cam
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 8, 2005 14:02:31 GMT -5
In fact, it's lots of styles in one(just like The Carpenters were).
'70s to the bone..., Jazz/Fusion/Funk/Disco..., great vocals, great brass, great strings, great keyboards, great bass, great drums, etc...
It fits with Chicago, Stevie Wonder, Steely Dan, Earth Wind & Fire, etc...
..., but, you just KNOW it's The Carpenters.
Awesome!! [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 8, 2005 23:32:16 GMT -5
I also love when Karen goes a little jazzy on her songs it was as if she was born to sing jazz...yet another way in which Karen is so remarkable.   I agree Karen was born to sing jazz. She was just born to sing anything period. Though back to the topic of jazz vocals. I could just imagine how excellent a smooth jazz album by her would be. Maybe something betwenn Diana Krall and Sade. This could be outstanding. Some of the songs from her solo album land somewhere within that range. Songs like "If I Had You" and "Guess I Just Lost My Head" fit the genre pefectly. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Mar 9, 2005 1:04:07 GMT -5
;D I agree with Tim that I think This Masq. is my favorite jazzy song. I'm sure others have sung it, but I have only heard Karen sing it...
and so it wouldn't be the same at all for me to hear anyone else sing it.
The C's music does fall into many categories and that's one reason for the great appeal they had for all ages...and types of music.
There are surely many that they sung that has some jazz in it.
I tend to think of that jazz sound when I hear the saxophone... and the electric flute.
But certainly the piano fits right in also.
The great sax parts with A Song for You, For All We Know and Superstar are just a few that come to my mind. Also Mr. Guder and Goofus.
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Post by Rob813 on Mar 11, 2005 20:10:32 GMT -5
For me, This Masquerade is the bomb! It's just a perfect song and makes me long for more of this type of music from the Carpenters. I never get tired of listening to this one, never. I think Karen's vocals and Richard's arrangement are just perfect.
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Post by cam83 on Mar 11, 2005 22:18:55 GMT -5
I know a LOT of people like this song, but I am and never have been a fan of this song. Of course, it's wonderfully sung by Karen...but it just doesn't do anything for me.
I prefer songs like A PLACE TO HIDEAWAY, CRESCENT NOON, MAYBE IT'S YOU, and SOLITAIRE...I like those kind of songs. I don't know why...I just do...I guess...
My thoughts,
Cameron
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 11, 2005 22:25:34 GMT -5
I prefer songs like A PLACE TO HIDEAWAY, CRESCENT NOON, MAYBE IT'S YOU, and SOLITAIRE...I like those kind of songs. I don't know why...I just do...I guess... My thoughts, Cameron Hi Cam, all great songs you've mentioned here, none of them are jazz influenced. I'd say these are of the standard ballad genre. With "Solitaire" being a power ballad of the highest form. Although the album "Close To You" (which "Crescent Noon" and "Maybe It's You" are from) has the adventure filled jazz influenced "Another Song". This song is a musical triumph and not what you heard from your standard mellow group at the time. The Carpenters were much more complex than your standard easy listening group. I guess that's why I don't think of them as "easy listening". |
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Post by enigma on Mar 12, 2005 8:07:50 GMT -5
Hi Cam, all great songs you've mentioned here, none of them are jazz influenced. I'd say these are of the standard ballad genre. With "Solitaire" being a power ballad of the highest form. Although the album "Close To You" (which "Crescent Noon" and "Maybe It's You" are from) has the adventure filled jazz influenced "Another Song". This song is a musical triumph and not what you heard from your standard mellow group at the time. The Carpenters were much more complex than your standard easy listening group. I guess that's why I don't think of them as "easy listening". I have to disagree on a few things here first, and this is just my take on the song, Solitaire is not a power ballad of the highest form. I will admit and do appreciate how complicated this song is to sing and Karen handles it so well which was remarkable but I do not consider the vocal on this all that powerful. This leads me to the "easy listening" thing even when Karen attempted to do power vocals she still sounded soft. Now I am not saying soft in a negative sense the vocals were great on songs like Another Song, Baby Its You, Road Ode etc I just do not consider them all that powerful. Maybe its because Karen could not sing loud that these vocals seem less powerful or perhaps her voice was so good that even when she sang powerfully it never sounded powerful but because of this I will always see the Carpenters as easy listening. Yes they were more complex and diversified than most easy listening artists at the time but no matter what musical style they tried to me their music was alway easy listening or soft. Sorry to get off topic here. |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 12, 2005 8:59:53 GMT -5
I have to disagree on a few things here first, and this is just my take on the song, Solitaire is not a power ballad of the highest form. I will admit and do appreciate how complicated this song is to sing and Karen handles it so well which was remarkable but I do not consider the vocal on this all that powerful. This leads me to the "easy listening" thing even when Karen attempted to do power vocals she still sounded soft. Now I am not saying soft in a negative sense the vocals were great on songs like Another Song, Baby Its You, Road Ode etc I just do not consider them all that powerful. Maybe its because Karen could not sing loud that these vocals seem less powerful or perhaps her voice was so good that even when she sang powerfully it never sounded powerful but because of this I will always see the Carpenters as easy listening. Yes they were more complex and diversified than most easy listening artists at the time but no matter what musical style they tried to me their music was alway easy listening or soft. Sorry to get off topic here. Enigma, please help me understand here - what is it YOU consider to be a "power ballad"? ) as I have to agree with Rick on this one). Secondly, The Carpenters have typically been classified as "Easy Listening" but I don't think of them in that way. They were way too diversified to be classified that way. They sang pop, jazz, country, etc. There were few if any artists at the time that "crossed-over" from Country to Pop, and vice versa, as occurs today (in great part thanks to Garth Brooks and those who followed), but had there been, I believe Carpenters would have ranked right up there on the Country charts, and I know I hear them on the oldies "jazz" station now. Given a few more years, they may have (and Karen, in fact, did) branch out to more disco (as that was the genre of the time) and who knows what else. And respectfully I strongly disagree that Karen didn't do any power ballads because her voice wasn't strong tnough to do them. In the lower registers, Karen was quite strong. let's compare her voice to say Ella Fitzgerald, who came out with some dynamite power ballads, though she too had a "softer" voice, but Ella definitely could sing a power ballad. I don't believe (and this is just my opinion) one has to have a strong voice to deliver a power ballad. Now, to finalize my thoughts on Carpenters "easy listening" status..Do I believe they would have eventually ever gone so far as "hard rock" or something along those lines?? - absolutely not. But, to be classified as "Easy Listening" only I think is an unfair classification as it is limiting. My early Saturday morning musings................... Tim $? $%  @@ |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 12, 2005 9:08:28 GMT -5
$% Another thought that's actually on the subject. Jazz - I think Karen and Rich both were highly jazz influenced, and it showed. Brubeck was one of their first jazz influences, and the 5/4 time signature in All I Can Do makes it evident how much they liked Take Five by Brubeck. All I Can Do could be some sort of "homage" to him, being written in the same time signature, with that same feel. As time went on they did mellow Jazz like Masquerade, straight ahead jazz like Someone To Watch Over Me, and wonderful jazz ballads like I Can Dream, Can't I. The jazz influence showed, and both Karen and Richard could pull it off without any trouble whatsoever. Their jazz numbers seemed effortless for them. More early a.m. Saturday thoughts~ Tim @@ |
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 12, 2005 11:15:59 GMT -5
I have to disagree on a few things here first, and this is just my take on the song, Solitaire is not a power ballad of the highest form. I will admit and do appreciate how complicated this song is to sing and Karen handles it so well which was remarkable but I do not consider the vocal on this all that powerful. This leads me to the "easy listening" thing even when Karen attempted to do power vocals she still sounded soft. Now I am not saying soft in a negative sense the vocals were great on songs like Another Song, Baby Its You, Road Ode etc I just do not consider them all that powerful. Maybe its because Karen could not sing loud that these vocals seem less powerful or perhaps her voice was so good that even when she sang powerfully it never sounded powerful but because of this I will always see the Carpenters as easy listening. Yes they were more complex and diversified than most easy listening artists at the time but no matter what musical style they tried to me their music was alway easy listening or soft. Sorry to get off topic here. Hi Enigma. In using the term "power ballad" to describe "Solitaire", I was speaking strictly of the musicianship. "Solitaire" has all the trademarks of the classic "power ballad". There's a great guitar solo along with excellent guitar parts throughtout. The music is aggressive and robust in it's tender way. And yes, Karen's voice is quite powerful on this song. You don't have to be a loud or gutsy singer to have a powerful voice. Karen's tones were song in her own tender way. She could reach every note she sang with complete clarity, ease and fullness - this in turn creates a powerful vocal. The Carpenters have recorded what many musicians consider to be some of the earliest power ballads. Which groups like Air Supply, Journey, and even groups like Poison and Scorpions conitnued with in the 80's and 90's. The power ballad just like with any genre of music is diversified. As for the "easy listenening" tag once again I'm referring to the acutal musicianship with Karen's voice secondary in thought. Most easy listening artists music is not quite as sophisticated and refined in musical arrangements and productions as the Carpenters' music is. Even with the Carpenters' standard ballads the songs are far beyond your traditional easy listening arrangements. And also to label Carpenters "pop" is just simply not enough. I tend to call them "progressive pop" or maybe "forward thinking adult contemporary". But to call Carpenters simply "easy listening" or "pop" in my mind just somehow doesn't quite capture the essence of what the Carpenters' music really is. |
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Post by enigma on Mar 12, 2005 13:06:13 GMT -5
Were there any female "power balladiers" in the 70s? When this topic gets mentioned, I think of Pat Benatar, and to a lesser extent, Chrissy Hynde and the Pretenders, but they were from the 80s. Could Karen have sung "Love Is A Battlefield" to the impact as Benatar? If we look at the Carpenters' musical influences, they reach into the Sinatra era. Jimmy Buffett, who just happens to be the same age as Richard, was influenced by the same era's music, although from a different area of the country. Chrissy Hynde's vocal style would be easiest to compare to Karen's because Chrissy's voice has never been "edgy". Notice I said "style", staying away from the "range" debate. Buffett, his latest country iteration notwithstanding, likes a lot of Forties "swing", songs like "Tiki Bar", and "Bob Roberts Society Band". Have you heard of Ann Wilson she was with heart it was the mid to late 70's a little after the Carpenters hit it big but that is the true power balladeer that come to mind from the 70's |
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Post by shalalala on Mar 12, 2005 14:49:44 GMT -5
Yesterday, thanks for mentioning "I Can Dream, Can't I?" I didn't know that song existed until a few days ago when I bought the Horizon LP at a local re-sale shop. It was like finding buried treasure. That song blows me away.
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