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Post by karen69roland on Mar 12, 2005 15:05:54 GMT -5
I remember, also, when I first heard Horizon..., *I Can Dream Can't I* went instantly on my answering machine... *Voluptuous* is the word. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 12, 2005 16:16:09 GMT -5
Hi Enigma. In using the term "power ballad" to describe "Solitaire", I was speaking strictly of the musicianship. "Solitaire" has all the trademarks of the classic "power ballad". There's a great guitar solo along with excellent guitar parts throughtout. The music is aggressive and robust in it's tender way. And yes, Karen's voice is quite powerful on this song. You don't have to be a loud or gutsy singer to have a powerful voice. Karen's tones were song in her own tender way. She could reach every note she sang with complete clarity, ease and fullness - this in turn creates a powerful vocal. The Carpenters have recorded what many musicians consider to be some of the earliest power ballads. Which groups like Air Supply, Journey, and even groups like Poison and Scorpions conitnued with in the 80's and 90's. The power ballad just like with any genre of music is diversified. As for the "easy listenening" tag once again I'm referring to the acutal musicianship with Karen's voice secondary in thought. Most easy listening artists music is not quite as sophisticated and refined in musical arrangements and productions as the Carpenters' music is. Even with the Carpenters' standard ballads the songs are far beyond your traditional easy listening arrangements. And also to label Carpenters "pop" is just simply not enough. I tend to call them "progressive pop" or maybe "forward thinking adult contemporary". But to call Carpenters simply "easy listening" or "pop" in my mind just somehow doesn't quite capture the essence of what the Carpenters' music really is. In continuing on with the off-topic conversation of power ballads. I went back and listened to "Horizon" after talk of whether "Solitaire" could be classified a "power ballad". In my previous post I mentioned that "Solitaire" has a guitar solo. I was wrong on that point. But the song deifinely has a strong presence of electric guitar throughout the enitre song. The song begins tender and intimate then works to a musical peak at the chorus which repeats a few times in the song. Another power ballad trait is the well defined drum parts. There's a crahing of the cymbals and snare drums throughout. The electric bass guitar rhythm is smooth yet steady. Which all ties together to come to a "wall of sound" swirling crescendo of orchestration accented with rock instruments. The song is certainly powerful in all ways. It's not a rock power ballad that you'd expect to hear being produced for someone like Pat Benatar or Ann Wilson. But it is a standard power ballad more akin to what you would hear from Air Supply. Both Pat Benatar and Ann Wilson are great singers of "power ballads". Ann Wilson is one of my alltime favorite female vocalists. Up there with Karen, Donna Summer and Sarah Brightman. Back to the jazz topic. In listening to "Horizon" this morning I very much enjoyed "I Can Dream Can't I". What an awesomely beautiful song. It's was written in 1939 and a hit in 1949 for the Andrews Sisters. So the song was popular during that jazz age big band era. Billy Mays' interpretation of the song for the Carpenters remains very true to the genre. Though the song is also seasoned with the technology of the 70's which had advanced tremendously since the 1940's. And 1975 was somewhat a turning point in the recording technology of the day.
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Post by shalalala on Mar 12, 2005 16:28:35 GMT -5
Rick, I meant to add in my earlier post that "I Can Dream, Can't I" sounds like something out of the '40s. I didn't know the song was actually written in 1939! That's so cool.
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Post by JIM on Mar 13, 2005 6:08:09 GMT -5
???Roland you really hit the nail on the head with your description of the style of many Carpenters songs jAZZ-POP! I wonder if it was due to the influence of the Dick Carpenter Trio. What ever it was certainly added a unique blend to many of there recordings, one that comes to mind is Mr Guder. I am also a huge fan of the KRFC Jingle! So short but oh so cool.
JIM
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 13, 2005 7:48:20 GMT -5
Hey *Good Buddy Jim*
Yes, you're right about Mr Guder.
When I want to show to someone how good Karen plays the drums, I take my *Live At Budokan 1974* VHS and put *Mr.Guder* on..., I love it... That 6/8 jazzy part is awesome. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 13, 2005 13:00:44 GMT -5
Yes, "Mr. Guder" is another nice jazz influenced tune. I love the vocal trade off at the end. Certainly the Richard Carpenter Trio is a direct influence on what the Carpenters have recorded since. Even there pre-Carpenters group Spectrum was influenced greatly by jazz rhythms and timing and vocal mixes.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 15, 2005 10:15:24 GMT -5
$% Enigma - go back a few posts and read my questions to you - I think somehow you missed them...what constitutes a "power ballad" to you? I'm quite interested to know. Listening to Live at the Palladium - specifically, Karen's drum solo on the Strike Up the Band medley - very jazz influenced. And, right on! Man, could she play. Tim
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Post by enigma on Mar 15, 2005 13:19:01 GMT -5
Oh sorry Tim I was not ignoring your post I just thought the question was designed to make your point and that you did not really want an answer to it. I guess it was the help me understand part as well as the capitalisation of you that gave me the impression you were emphasising your point or a point. Anyhow here are some of the songs I consider power ballads as I stated in my response to Dave Ann Wilson is a fine example of a power vocalist more specifically songs like Alone, Perfect Stranger. How Can I Refuse (that one is borderline soft) even Nancy Wilsons stuff like stranded. Others are No One Like You by The Scorpians Home Sweet Home by Motley Crue Hysteria by Def Lepard Heaven by Warrent More Than Words Can Say by Alias When I'm With You by Sherif Woman In Love by Barbara Streisand and alot more that are simularly set up. I know alot of these song are of the hard rock/heavy metal genera which may be a little beyond what Karen would consider doing even though she probaby could but thats precisely why I do not consider Karen a power vocalist as such. While I am at it I will address a post Rick made Rick you had me at Journey and Air Supply but promptly lost me at Poison and the Scorpians. If you are saying that these bands started thinking that they could put a few ballads on their album and not lose the power of their music like the Carpenters put more power into their music but kept their sound you may have a point but The Beatles and I am sure others before them had what could be called power ballads and its just as likely and maybe more likely they learned from them than the Carpenters. I could be wrong but I can't see a connection between Goodbye To Love and No One Like You. Once again sorry to get of topic again just when we were getting back on track. &^ *%
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 15, 2005 13:29:49 GMT -5
$% Thanks, Enigma. No, if I wanted to make a point, I would. No one has to look for a hidden meaning from me. But, thanks for answering my question, and sorry to get the post going in a different direction again. Let's continue with jazz.. how about some of the jazzier Christmas tunes? I think they were done well. Tim @@
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 16, 2005 0:21:53 GMT -5
Thanks, Enigma. No, if I wanted to make a point, I would. No one has to look for a hidden meaning from me. But, thanks for answering my question, and sorry to get the post going in a different direction again. Let's continue with jazz.. how about some of the jazzier Christmas tunes? I think they were done well. Tim I agree with you Tim. Jazz is a much more interesting topic - seeing it's the Carpenters' roots. I do want to clear any misconceptions of what I said. I also feel that several Beatles songs were power ballads, "Hey Jude" is one of them. I don't think of Carpenters as the originator of the power ballad definitely not. Though for some reason "Goodbye To Love" has gone down in the annals of history. Many people from diiferent musical backgrounds look back at that song as trendsetting. It's mentioned often on guitar websites also. I am also not saying that the Carpenters were a power pop or power ballad group. By all mean they are not. But at the same point I think their music is too advanced to be simply called easy listening. Easy listening in my mind is Andy Williams or Lawrence Welk (both of whom are great musicians). The Carpenters have done a few power ballads. More akin to Air Supply or Journey type power ballads as opposed to Poison or Scorpions type power ballads. These are what I feel are a few power ballads by Carpenters. These are the ones I can think off the top of my head. Goodbye To Love Love Me For What I Am Solitaire I Just Fall In Love Again Tryin' To Get The Feelin' Again
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Post by enigma on Mar 16, 2005 8:01:19 GMT -5
Its interesting you bring up the easy listening thing there are examples of Carpenters songs that do not fit the easy listeneing I agree but when the majority of an artists songs fit a type of music like easy listeneing one usually puts them into that catagory and I am guilty as chargred in that case, What made me somewhat reevaluate this was I was listening to a radio station that played easy listeneing music like the artists Rick mentioned and they also played the Carpenters. When they played songs like Rainy Days. or I wont last a day without you it fit with the other artists then one day they played Only Yesterday and I noticed right away this seemed to be a little harder than you average easy listenening. I do still consider the Carpenters easy listeneng based on the majority of their songs but there are examples such as OY that are outside the confines of easy listening. Sorry to continue on this tangent but I did find it interesting that when I was listening to the radio the most non easy listening song of the Carpenters just happened to be on the playlist while we were discussing the easy listening label...things that make you go hmmm.
Back to the topic Tim or anyone else what examples can you think of regarding Xmas songs with jazz influences I can't think of any off hand and I would be interested in what you consider fits the criteria. And yes Tim I would like you to answer this.lol
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 16, 2005 9:33:02 GMT -5
$% Enigma, you made me smile. Christmas Waltz is a jazz waltz, for example. Karen does this one SO well. Then of course, there's Let It Snow is straight ahead jazz - I'll Be Home For Christmas is a jazz ballad, and is done excellently - I love to hear Karen sing this one..White Christmas, eventually gets to a jazz feel, though Richard's arrangement puts it somewhat into the "show tune" category, I think..and Home For The Holidays is straight ahead, too. I just love these tunes, and I prefer Carpenters rendition over many others. Some thoughts for now. Tim @@
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 16, 2005 10:44:35 GMT -5
Songs like *Have Yourself A Merry Christmas*, *The Christmas Song* and *I'll Be Home For Christmas* are all great Jazz standards.
..., they have that great *I Can Dream Can't I* feel. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 16, 2005 12:16:20 GMT -5
The long version of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" is an excellent easy jazz influenced arrangement. I just love this song and feel it's one of Karen's most awesome performances. ^*
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Post by JIM on Sept 30, 2005 14:26:41 GMT -5
Even though an insturnmental, Caravan is a jazz standard. The recording seems a bit home spun but I do enjoy listening to it. Very complex time signatures and key changes, not to mention Karen's drum solo!! Did anyone mention Love Is Surrender? As far as the Carpenters being labled Easy Listening, I think of Percy Faith or The Ray Coniff Singers. The Carpenters were Rock, Pop, Country and Christmas, they have charted in all generes. I was in Borders today and I noticed the C's were located in the Rock Standrds section. No matter how you slice it the Carpenters could turn any style into something unique and different. JIM
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Post by Rick Henry on Sept 30, 2005 23:49:29 GMT -5
I'm with you Jim on my description of easy listening. When I hear that term I think of artists like the Ray Conniff Singers or Lawrence Welk. Carpenters certainly fall into the pop-rock category the mellower side of pop-rock. And you're right any way you slice it up Carpenters music when it comes right down to it is excellent.
As for "love I Surrender" - great song, but it's certainly not a jazz influenced tune that one is pop all the way. a bit of trivia on this one. It was originally written as a contemporary Christian tune.
"Caravan" is an outstanding jazz tune. I just love the Carpenters' early sounds and I would have loved to hear an all jazz instrumental album recorded by them with Karen on drums - that would have been a hot ticket if done in the late 70's.
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