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Post by carp1ncmor on Nov 22, 2004 16:59:53 GMT -5
I most definitely agree that nothing can ever replace Karen herself. I love Karen just as much as any other genuine Carpenters' fanatic TEXT. No one or no thing can even begin to compare to her and her perfect voice. However, I would be willing to support anything, even computer-generated bits and pieces put together to make a new recording. I don't know if any of you saw that Ford commercial with Steve McQueen, but it really looked like he was acting out the part. Has anyone saw it? It is a Ford Mustang commercial.
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 22, 2004 22:49:34 GMT -5
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I haven't seen the Steve McQueen commercial, but I do find it amazing as to what can be done in today's computer age technology. and yes I would certainly buy an disc with a computer replicated karen Carpenter. It would be wonderful if they could perfectly match her voice, using only her own vocal particles - but if they go in and put a sound-a-like voice in there to round things out than even that would ruin the authenticity of it.
Though I must add as carp1ncmor states; nothing or no one can ever compare to Karen or will ever even come close. She is a one of a kind. But since we will never have any truly new recordings from her, it would be quite interesting to hear some current day modern sounds from her (even if it is computer generated).
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Post by enigma on Nov 22, 2004 22:57:43 GMT -5
Computor generated Karen? I think not are we so desperate to get these songs finished that we would settle for a digitally reproduced Karen? I for one would not no way. I mean while we are at it why don't we release these songs as new Carpenters songs digitally insert Karen into any scenerio and make music videos to promote the project it will be like Karen was alive today. (sense the sarcasm here?). There is no computor no mater how far they get into artificial intelligence that can replace Karens soul her emotion she put into every song she sang thats why I love her so she is not just a great singer to me she is a complex human being and this came through in her renditions of the songs. They may be able to reproduce Karens voice but it would be like producing a hologram of Karen it would be a shell with no soul, superficial. If others would buy this artificial Karen so be it I would not. I do not even consider material released after Made In America to be new Carpenters music its just unreleased not new. As far as I am concerned MIA was the Carpenters final album it was the last one Karen saw all the way through no reworking of unreleased material and especially computor generated songs will capture what Karen produced and sang while she was alive. As I said before if the songs are unfinished (ie no or incomplete leads) leave them that way there is a reason Karen chose not to finish them and she would probably be working on new material had she lived not finishing 20+ year old songs...chances are Karen and/or Richard did not want these songs released or they would have finished them.
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 23, 2004 10:14:22 GMT -5
There is no computor no mater how far they get into artificial intelligence that can replace Karens soul her emotion she put into every song she sang thats why I love her so she is not just a great singer to me she is a complex human being and this came through in her renditions of the songs. They may be able to reproduce Karens voice but it would be like producing a hologram of Karen it would be a shell with no soul, superficial. Enigma you certainly make some good points here. I completely agree with you. You just can not ever duplicate karen. although I would find it interesting if something could be pieced together, and of course it wouldn't be Karen, it would be more of a tribute. I'm not so against experimentation with sounds and technology, but at the same place I would never want to see the human factor replaced by computer automation. Now as for music videos I really wish Universal would have some new videos put together for some of the songs that as of yet have not been on DVD or VHS. There are so many great songs which should be promooted. In one of the Carpenters biographies there was just the beginning of what looked was going to be a video for "Goodbye to Love", it had that famous K&R silhouette logo which changed colors, it was all technological, but done really well.
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Post by JIM on Nov 23, 2004 13:44:00 GMT -5
!@ Yes Dave and Enigma a simulated Karen is out of the question but what about the video images of the Carpenters we first enjoyed on magenetic tape and then digigital video disc. Could the next step in tchnology lead to an inhanced form of these images? Richard has inhanced many recordings and is due to release a collection of songs on super audio compact disc, which will add even more dimension to the music. The next step may allow us to attend a virtual Live In Japan concert. Change is always scary but it shortly becomes accepted as the norm. Dave, how come people using the Holo Deck in Star Trek mangage never to bump into the walls of a limited amount of 4 dimensional space? JIM
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Post by enigma on Nov 23, 2004 14:06:35 GMT -5
Dave you got my reference I deliberately used the term hologram (I must admit I am a bit of a trek fan) You make a good point I feel Karen would also feel violated if someone used a hologram or computer to artificially generate her even her voice this is not what she worked so hard on all those years her voice was natural perfection no computor or studio wizardry needed. The hologram idea for Karen is intrigueing but just would not be the same as the real thing. If I may be so bold as to reference a star trek episode it was also warned in that show the dangers of technology being so advanced that not only can people not tell computor from reality but actually prefer it to the real thing (think Lt Barkley Dave). If I may reference a quote from Futurama "why don't you get away from that Tv and into the real world to which was replied no way this is better than the real world" Basically I do not want the real Karen to be lost in the world of technology that would be more tragic that her untimely death. As you can see I do not generally support bringing dead people back via computor and inserting them into a commercial, movie and even a song voice wise did not like it when Forest Gump did it or when Natalie Cole or Hank Williams jr did it with there dads and those were tributes. I am a realist and purest I even prefer originals to remakes of song with some exceptions and do not like lip syncing (even when Karen did it) and sampling thats just me I guess.
Jim I am not afraid of change, I welcome it. I just don't support messing around with something someone has done especially when they are not here to say whether they want you to use them in that way. Do something new with technology just leave the originals alone as they were intended to be.
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Post by JIM on Nov 23, 2004 14:40:34 GMT -5
!@ You know I have read recently where a lot of audiophiles are returning to vynil claiming that ananalog recordings have a warmer quality that is lost when transfered to digital. However albums are heavy and the diamond stylus required for optimal sound costs more than some of the best CD players. So I guess an argument could be made either way when it comes to A/V technology advances, accept in the case of 8 Track and 8 millimeter video tape. JIM
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 23, 2004 21:42:38 GMT -5
Even if Karen's voice was computer generated to create new songs - I highly doubt that the real Karen would ever be lost. That just can not happen. I mean look at the tremendous legacy Karen Carpenter has built, it is so strong that we are here talking about the possiblity of her voice being computer generated and her image being duplicated.
I really enjoyed the Nat and natalie cole song/video. it was done quite tastefully and beautifully. I remember in the late 70's a radio disc jockey took Elvis Presley's "Love Me Tender" and combined with Linda Ronstadt's recording to make it sound like they duetted together, it sounded excellent. I've just always been one for playing with sounds and combining different sounds to create new ones. That's the inventor in me. ?*
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Peteruk
CERTIFIED GOLD MEMBER
Posts: 148
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Post by Peteruk on Nov 25, 2004 18:51:45 GMT -5
Computer -generated Karen ....no way during Richard's lifetime ....this would offend him greatly ...creating something unreal , soulless and not part of Karen .... Possibly other generations will try after Richard is gone ....but the magic & originality just would not be there .... Computer -generated anything ....in terms of attempted human reproductions ...just is a last desperate throw of the dice ....awful to consider .... Peter
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Mar 30, 2007 2:46:33 GMT -5
Something old... something new... I revisited this thread and found a fascinating discussion that branched out in several directions. Starting with a Modern Drummer Publications, Inc. article on Karen's drumming abilities and then advancing to speculations on the unreleased recordings at the time of Karen's death, this thread also covers other topics that are each worthy of consideration and discussion. One particular topic that has caught my eye is something that I have often thought about before: the sampling and synthesis of Karen's voice for new recordings. I saw a Ford commercial the other day with a computer-generated Steve McQueen starring in it. It was as if Steve was actually alive! What they can do with computers nowadays. I wonder if Karen's voice could be used to computer-generate new songs...just a thought. I know it wouldn't be the same but, yeah, better than no new Karen material at all! It's just that I miss her so much. Back in the 1980's, I heard that audio technology was so advanced that one could sample an ambient sound and create full ranges of notes and octaves based on that. (For example, check out Depeche Mode's "Work Hard.") I got to thinking that technology is perhaps now even more sophisticated that human speech and singing may be broken down to fundamental bits of sound, sampled and synthesized into full dynamic ranges as well. These particles of sound might be recombined to create new, more naturalistic-sounding human voices than the flat, "robotic" voices of the past. If this audio technology were available and in widespread use today, what would you think about the possibility of Karen sound-alike recordings aesthetically and ethically? Would it be a tribute to Karen and acknowledgment of the fact that her voice is so unique that no one has been able to replace her? Would the product of this synthetic process be devoid of her "soul" and essence? Would it be crass commercialization? What do you think?
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 30, 2007 7:27:36 GMT -5
Fascinating topic and an intriguing idea. Synthesized Karen.
Richard would want domain. But to think of the possibilities and songs we might hear ... R could complete the 'unfinished' works Carpenters started AND he could complete the 'unfinished' works from K's solo project.
After that is all said and done, the experimenting would truly begin. Richard is not opposed to playing and singing with a video of Karen, for he has done it in the past. An audio extension/manipulation of 'Karen' would permit Richard to finally move forward.
Beyond Richard, the Carpenters, etc. having 'Karen' in other types of productions ... movie voice overs, commercials, and in the hands of other record producers ... would be exciting, IF done with respect.
Would we actually be listening to Karen or to 'Karen'? Karen's way of interpreting a song, holding certain notes, playing with the meter of the rhythm of a sung line, her 'soul' would all be missing. I think only the true Karen could really do this and in a manner that is not duplicable.
It would be 'fun' to give 'Karen' a hear.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 30, 2007 10:47:49 GMT -5
Yes, this would be quite fascinating. I have heard of these sort of possibilities back in the 90's. a friend had mentioned that a sort of "cloning" of Karen's voice could possibly be done to create new songs. Taking pieces of her voice, certain vowels, words, tones and so forth and then recombining them to create new songs and/or as Wisejester suggested in voiceovers or commercials.
The question lies... would we be listening to Karen or 'Karen'?
I would venture to say we'd be listening to 'Karen' who is based on Karen. In order to get all the nuances of sounds to perfection of Karen's voice - the engineer behind this working would have to study Karen's voice very closely to get it right on.
In an off-shoot of this thought I've heard many many singers who claim to sound "just like" or 'very close" to Karen. When I hear this I am immediately "turned off" - as there really was only one Karen Carpenter. Though, I will listen to see if there are any similarities. And so far every singer I've ever listened to who has made this claim (or others make this claim about) have all fallen short of the sheer beauty, depth and perfection of Karen's voice - some are just completely way off base. The only true imitation of Karen's voice just may most likely be Karen imitating herself - through today's modern technology.
Very good topic... thank you for bringing it back up Dreams...
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