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Post by BethMosior on Jul 5, 2004 23:40:02 GMT -5
I really love this song sometimes though I find it very hard to listen too when I was very young I heard this song alot and just loved it until about 1979 or 1980 when I got a feeling every time I heard in this song was going to come true, that Karen or Richard or both, I was not sure, were going to die, really scared me and I didn't know why I felt this, you see I never looked at karen like what are you wearing or anything like that , all I looked at were her eyes, she knew pain like me , that I was not alone in my pain and never saw how thin she was till years later and no one knew what Richard was going through till the movie came out so for about 3 years I kept writing them and saying basically to please stop what ever you are doing to yourselves or you are going to die, this was the worst 3 or 4 years in my life, a real nightmare, I kept praying Lord take me, not them. when the bad dream came true, well lets just say that I really have never stopped mourning,half of me was gone I know some might say crazy girl or oh brother a nut case, thats really nothing new for me because I got that for just loving the Carpenters, but to me this song always takes me back when as a little girl I lost my only Friend at that time on this earth I've never told too many this just my mom, I think, but I felt that I had to and I thank GOD for letting me know all this because I could not live with myself if I had not warned Karen I really miss Karen alot Thanx for letting me ramble on like this and I hope that we are still friends
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Post by Rick Henry on Jul 6, 2004 0:59:54 GMT -5
Hi Beth, I love "a song for You", it really is quite an amazing song. Karen at the young age of 22 really sings it with great depth and soul. It's really interesting that you had these feelings about K&R in the early 80's, it's almost like you had a premonition. This is very interesting. I like you rarely noticed what Karen was wearing, when I looked at her it was usually the eyes. She had the most expressive eyes. You could see her soul and her emotions so very much in her eyes. I could stare at her for 15-20 minutes at a time, like as if I were trying to figure out a puzzle of some sort. I just couldn't figure it out, what it was about Karen.
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Post by enigma on Jul 6, 2004 15:20:37 GMT -5
"She had the most expressive eyes. You could see her soul and her emotions so very much in her eyes. I could stare at her for 15-20 minutes at a time, like as if I were trying to figure out a puzzle of some sort. I just couldn't figure it out, what it was about Karen. " Rick again you have hit the nail on the head Karens eyes seemed to be a window into her soul. I never fully understood Karen or her struggles but loved her just the same. Indeed she was a puzzle in some ways. Richard even commented on her eyes saying that they were so full of life and that near Karens death he noticed there was no life in them. The eyes tell all. My preminition regarding Karen was more obvious. When she appeared on the Merv Griffeth Show in 1981 it dawned on me that judging by her appearance the end was near. I did not know she was going to die but I had a bad feeling she was in serious trouble and it saddened me. Her death was not surprising to me but tragic and hard nontheless. I do miss her greatly. Beth thanks for sharing that touching and personal experience. BTW I don't think you ramble I do believe Karen died for a reason and at that point (when you wrote them) all the warnings and prayers would not have helped; we may not fully understand why, but it had to happen. You did your best to help and its good that you did because at least you tried; you don't know how many times I wished I could have tried to warn/help her. I don't see A Song For You as a foreshadowing of things to come I just love this song and try not to link it to later events otherwise I would not enjoy it as much.
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Post by Federico Cruz on Jul 6, 2004 17:19:29 GMT -5
It happened the same with me the first time I saw the carpenters in photographs (the photos from the session that were taken in the Newville house in 1973, and I sent to Rick two of them that were published in another board of this site). My impression When I saw her eyecups my thought was: "Oh God!, she must be sick".
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Post by smoothie2 on Jul 7, 2004 0:13:27 GMT -5
Thought I had posted my reply already on this topic, but don't see it anywhere...so I'll just give a summary of what I wrote. I always loved "A Song For You" ...it was one of the very first C's songs I recall hearing and it really got to me. It was and even more so is hauntingly beautiful. Beth and Dave, I'm sorry to hear that you lost those very special people in your lives at the same time Karen died. Life is like that a lot for a lotta folks. God tells us that when we're weak, He becomes stronger because He Understands, and that as a result we too become stronger. It really doesn't feel that way at all while we are feeling such pain, but He's there. I don't mean to this to sound like you shouldn't still be hurting or anything like that. The whole world was darkened by Karen's death and many surprised. The last few times that I recall seeing Karen on tv...she was skeletal and yet I don't think she ever viewed herself that way, despite treatment. I know she really loved her family and friends, and wanted to please them...but that was part of the sickness too...pressure and the life of fame. Beth, you must have felt some comfort in writing Karen and Richard even though you didn't hear from them. It must have helped you in some small way with what you were going through. I hope it did. I do believe some folks have premonitions, many do. I think that I have had a few myself. I have expressed those feelings to some, but not sure they knew what I meant. Anyway, Karen had beautiful eyes. Seeing her in some photos, even before she plainly was very thin, I can tell the lustre or sparkle in her eyes was gone. She could still sing and laugh and play like always, but the sickness quickly took its toll. I don't think she realized how very thin and sick she was. She wanted to please her family and fans and she did what they wanted...got help and gained some weight but it all really was to please everybody out there...which was a very big part of the whole problem...pressure and the life of fame. In any case, she surely left behind some wonderful music which lives on ! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. Thank you Karen wherever you are for spreading your goodness and voice for us.
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Post by smoothie2 on Jul 7, 2004 0:16:45 GMT -5
:'(okeydokey..............well, that didn't turn out to be a summary...oh well....
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Post by smoothie2 on Jul 7, 2004 0:19:16 GMT -5
Dave, I always liked the show Quantum Leap too and glad they are showing it again. I'm always intrigued by time travel thing.
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Post by BethMosior on Jul 7, 2004 1:38:12 GMT -5
The special person who passed away was Karen Anne Carpenter, the only other friend I had growing up is Jesus Christ I didn't have really any friends till many, many years later, and I know that in the long run I'm a better person for the aloneness and abuse but like a scar, the pain of it and Karen Carpenters passing sometimes can really hurt even tho it may be an old scar all I can do is hope and pray that I will see my dear friend again someday Thanx for your thoughts
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Post by cam83 on Jul 7, 2004 12:08:03 GMT -5
Hi Guys, I too like the A SONG FOR YOU, but only the REPRISE. I feel that A SONG FOR YOU is too long, and drags on in my opinion. Really! I am not trying to be controversial, but as people on this forum and other forums know...A SONG FOR YOU and HORIZON are just not my favorite albums...They were in fact the very last albums in my collection. So that is probably why. I love the REPRISE because it says what it needs to quickly, her voice sounds angelic and I love the echo...everything about it is fantastic.
Also, in regards to Karen's viewing herself as skeletol, she was able to see how thin she had become. She cried when she saw how thin she had become. That was in the Coleman story. It was probably in a moment when heaven and earth collided...one of those self defining moments, when she was able to see her illness. Also during therapy...she tried everything to conquer this disease/disorder with all her heart and might, and not to just please everybody...A person does not take a year off for the fun of getting lengthy counselling sessions, or to convince people she is getting better. Karen was way too smart for that. She was also a woman who was careful with her money, so why would she waste all that money...$2000 a month for counselling, never mind staying at the expensive Hotel Regency and all the costs that came with that. She did this so she could get better, after talking with Cherry Boone O'Neill. She had to get better in terms of business...her career depended on it... musical contracts...she had to get better! She had to get better because she was addicted to laxatives and that had to be costly. Finally she knew that she needed help. And so she took a year off to get better. As Dr Levonkron says of Karen being in Lenox Hill Hospital in November 1982, "She used to look at her arms in the hospital and remember that this is what they were supposed to look like, when she was gaining weight." She was liking what she saw. As I have also stated before, her weight increase was started by IV usage, and then when she started eating more and more, they would gradually decrease her IV. Which angers me when Richard would discount the fact that she was better. Because she was better! Yes, her eyes probably would not look good at all. She had just been at the point of extreme emaciation and if you have ever looked at famine victim's eyes, you can tell that it just doesn't like right, even after a weight gain because the body is struggling to get used to having food in its system. Anyways, she got to 104 lbs upon leaving the hospital. By LA, she was up to 108 lbs on her 5 ft 4 1/2 inch frame. Still thin, but much, much better. So she did her "TIME" so to speak, and still it's not good enough for those around her. I am glad she told Richard off. At least she stood up to him. If you look into her eyes for the VOICE OF THE HEART cover photo...they are big and beautiful. But as my Aunt said who worked with sick and undernourished patients she could tell that Karen looked sick. She could tell by the eyes. And that was during 1980 photo sessions.
My thoughts, Cameron
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Post by smoothie2 on Jul 7, 2004 13:32:11 GMT -5
:)Beth, I'm sorry I misread or the point just didn't click when I read your post. I was thinking that you meant someone else you knew as a friend died at the same time that Karen had. I do know from your past posts, that you really had some terrible and lonely and very painful times. I am glad that you have a strong faith and that things seem to be better now for you.
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Post by smoothie2 on Jul 7, 2004 14:00:01 GMT -5
It's been too long ago since I read the Coleman book and -or seen the tv movie about the Carpenters. Cam, thank you for right information and insight about Karen's struggle. You're right that she wouldn't spend all that time and money and effort in rehab if she had not been serious about getting well. She was so amazing! It really is hard to believe that she's gone. She lives on though through her music.
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Post by Rob813 on Jul 7, 2004 22:12:25 GMT -5
Firstly, Beth my heart goes out to you. Clearly, your life has been filled with loneliness and pain. Your love of Karen, despite never having met her, is a testament to the power of Karen's talent. Honestly, it brings me to tears to hear of your pain Beth. Your faith in Jesus, who by the way, created Karen, is the key to every moment of happiness you will ever experience in your life. Take comfort that when Karen entered heaven, she was met with the words - "well done my good and faithful servent, enter into thy rest." And for those of us with faith, we know that we will meet up with her and all those we love when our turn arrives. Keep sharing with us Beth and we will keep loving you right back.
Rob
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robert
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Post by robert on Jul 7, 2004 23:02:17 GMT -5
having just read through this section i am impressed by the calibre of carpenter fans. i remember sitting in a class at university in the spring of 1982 thinking about karen - what was she doing and I was thinking if everything was all right. after she died, i thought of the tremendous comfort she brought to her fans and that she was an instrument for good in the world. I believe in Christ and found so much comfort from Karen's voice i often wondered if that was compatible - should Christ be my comforter or was i making an idol of her beautiful voice. I don't think so now. I appreciate that God gave her a voice which she used for his purpose, whether the carpenters realized it or not. When i read the above entry :"thou good and faithful servant" it really wanted to make my cry.
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Post by enigma on Jul 9, 2004 10:02:10 GMT -5
" Which angers me when Richard would discount the fact that she was better. Because she was better! "
Cam take note of this because this is one of the few times I will totally support what Richard has said. When Karen left treatment she bought a large amount of jogging shoes and ran obsessively when she gained weight. Maybe this behavior stopped near the end but I would find it hard to believe any doctor could reverse 10 years of behaviors and ideas in 1 year. Karen did gain weight and was eating before she died but that did not mean she had won the war. I believe she still had a long way to go before she was "cured". Richard had lived this disease with Karen he had seen her gain weight only to revert back to old behaviors and lose it again his skeptcism was understandable and I was not convinced she had beaten the disease myself. BTW apparently Karen was still using a laxative or vomit inducer called Ipecac when she died. She was partially recovered but not entirely and she did fight hard and wanted to beat her disease unfortunately she lost her battle.
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Post by cam83 on Jul 9, 2004 10:22:38 GMT -5
Hi Enigma and all, You might be mistaken. Karen bought the 30 pairs of jogging shoes in New York, during her stages of treatment, in a 9 month period she wore out her shoes as she went walking and running all over the place, as anorexics are apt to do. As for the ipecac theory, that in itself is a controversay because supposedly she had that in her system when she died, of which Richard and the family never saw that information. Also, why would a woman who cherished the quality of her voice, take ipecac? Vomiting makes your throat raw and sore and your vocals become distorted and scratchy. I don't buy into that theory that she did it. Her friends go back and forth on that one. Yeah, but Richard had to give her some validation, some credit that she had made the decision to gain that weight and to get better. This was not a, oh I will go into a hospital for a few weeks and put on some pounds. This was a committment for a year's treatment, away from her family, her musical career, and work on herself, and it wasn't going to be easy. I don't take that lightly that she made this serious problem number one on her agenda. I can understand the family and friends being concerned, as yes, Karen had gained moderate amounts of weight before, but this time was a serious affair. She was seeing a professional about it. And to top it off, during her counselling sessions she was growing and learning about herself. The fact that she wept about how bad she felt about herself and how she hurt the family...was monumental. She was releasing feelings kept deep within her for all those years. And I have stated before, that Karen took 5 sessions a week, so in one month period would be the same as someone getting counselling once a week, for 5 months. So Karen did a lot of counselling in that time frame.
My thoughts, Cameron
PS. Also the fact that she was telling all the young girls and fellow anorexics that they could get better and left them with such hope, and then wanted to go via television talk shows and talk about her battle with anorexia....that's amazing.
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Post by BethMosior on Jul 9, 2004 14:16:35 GMT -5
I have heard that the most dangerous time for anorexics, and specially the ones who have done it for years, is after the treatment, but back then they still didn't know alot about it, only after Karens passing have they made alot of break throughs with the disease Richard has a fund to research the disease and help other anorexics,and is doing everything to help because he knows how helpless they and thier familys can feel, which I think is really neat. ok I'm rambling again with my thoughts. thanx for listening
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Peteruk
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Post by Peteruk on Jul 12, 2004 12:50:59 GMT -5
Credit where credit is due after many years of denying there were any problems -Karen admitted in late 1981 she had serious health issues However -having met Karen & Richard in 1981 and seeing those last few 1982 /1983 pictures -there is no doubt -Karen looked far worse -after the New York period -all very sad Richard was deeply concerned about Karen -after her LA return -and proved right by her collapse and tragic death -that in health terms -Karen remained ill and there was still a huge amount to overcome -perhaps years more medical / professional guidance Having read more about Karen's disorders , the concern felt & shared by all those closest to her that she was still not fully recovered -one grieves that such a talented , intelligent person could not understand the damage she had physically done -coupled with the underlying mental & emotional issues-that finally overwhelmed her body Peter
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Post by BethMosior on Jul 15, 2004 2:29:19 GMT -5
Yes Peter, I'm very proud of Karen for getting up the courage to say that she had a problem and needed help, it takes alot of inner strangth to do something like that, almost like the song "Help" and I feel that it is admirable,even to the point of trying to help her fellow sufferers saying you can beat this, then leaving the needlepoint " you win, I gain " on the therapist's wall, like she wanted others to follow her example and eat
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