Karen solo album controversy

[Rick Henry]

Dave said:

I can do a comparison with only one song "Make Believe", because it's on "Voices" and the "Gold" album. Two entirely different arrangements, and I like the "Voices" arrangement better, and not just because we get a small bit of Karen's normal voice. So, which one was recorded first? Richard doesn't say on the "Gold" album.
I remember reading an interview Billy Joel gave in the '80s saying that time was causing him to have to give up trying to reach certain notes, and that seems to be the case on this album. Whether it's the selection of material or stress, or whatever, this album does not showcase her voice well at all. Don't get me wrong, I like the album. Maybe Karen's voice was "cold" because of years of inactivity.

Overall, I think that it would have been a good jumping off point for Karen, and maybe a small success at that point in her life would've meant the world to her.

"Make Believe It's Your First Time" from Karen's solo was recorded first. I prefer Karen's solo album much more, it's very intimate with the piano and vocal. richard's arrangement on "Voice Of The Heart" was way too sugary, it just doesn't have the same impact as the solo album version.

As for Karen's voice when she recorded these songs there hadn't been any inactivity as they were recorded in 1979-1980 shortly after "Christmas Portrait" had been recorded. I don't think Karen's voice was any less, she had full range even on the last songs she recorded. But I think for the solo album she was experimenting with a slightly different vocal style. I think she sounded great. You should hear the unreleased songs from her solo sessions - she sings with all her might. "If I Had You" is a fine example of an excellent vocal from Karen.

As far as a little success, I feel that if the album had been released in 1980 it would have been more than a little success, I'm certain she would have scored atleast one #1 hit with this work.

... just my thoughts

[Dave]

I'm glad you folks have all of the inside scoop, since I'm a relative "apprentice". But there's always something to learn, and I appreciate the information.
I guess it's a "tomato-tomatoe" thing as to which version of a song we appreciate. Variety is a good thing.
As far as scoring more than one hit, you're right. Here in Pittsburgh the Carpenters disappeared from the radio after "Solitaire", and as such I got the (wrong) impression that they had retired. Even the two AC stations at the time played old standards from them. Everything else was disco. So, how do you "return" from this inactivity? Release the album, and since "Still Crazy" was on it, it would've opened the door as a cover song.
We'll never know what would have happened. I may get a chance to have an effect, in my world. I may be able to be a DJ for a few hours on WKFB AM 770 next month, and I will take Karen's album with me and, in the proud tradition of old-time Top 40 DJ's, I'll "break" as many songs as I can get away with. I'll let you all know how it goes. Wish me luck. It would be neat if Richard suddenly saw a surge in sales of Karen's album here in the Pittsburgh area, and then maybe it would spread...?

[JIM]

Hey Dave
Yuns guys are firm Pittsbargh? I lived on the North
Side for 5yrs and I worked down
town, so naturally over the years
I picked up the unique accent that
Pitt. is known for. I really miss
Pitt. the people are so freindly!
I live in Ft. Lauderdale where
its very hard to find genuine people. I have often thought about
going back. I love your plan!! I
wish I was a radio DJ! There is
a station down here called Love94
FM with a light jazz format and
a freind of mine produces local
radio commercials and has some
connections. I also was hoping to
get some of Karens solo work on
the air, hoping to generate new
interest in the Carpenters. Rick
Henery had some ideas a while back
on capturing the medias attention
but due to his move decided to wait
a while, until he gets himself and
his 100billion records settled(just
kidding Rick) Check out the thread
"What if Universal were to." It
really would be fantastic if you
could get some of KC solo work on
the air! It really did not get the
promotion it deserved and I really
beleive if more people heard some
of these great songs, it could
start a revival for the C's
My parents live in Morgantown so
the next time I go home, I will
check out your station.
JIM

[Peteruk]

Karen Carpenter should ideally have been released Spring 1980 as planned and Karen could have promoted this solo album with several TV / Radio performances

Really the blame ....such as it is .....belongs to A&M ....who created this project ....brought in Phil Ramone .....backed the album .....until hearing the playbacks.....either disappointing Execs or was considered too radical for Karen's / Carpenters fanbase

I am always worried when I read / listen to fans who believe that had both Karen Carpenter been issued in 1980 and Karen's marriage survived longer than 15 months ....Karen would still be alive ! Karen was seriously ill and even with different medical care in 1981 / 1982 would still have had major health problems for rest of her life ....eating disorders rarely go away

Surprised that Karen & Ramone did not fight more for this album .....both were proud of their work ....but aware the album as it stood would not be that successful as compared to other Carpenters & Ramone past sellers ....

Even in 1996 A&M outside of Japan / Asia just ignored this set and barely promoted a fascinating album

Peter

[Dave]

Hey Jim;
It's sure nice to hear from another "yinzer". I work on the Sauth Side, across the Mon from Dahntahn. I could slip into "Pittsburghese", but then we'd be the only ones who could understand it. My sister lives in Spring Hill, near Weeki Wachee. She took a teaching position there last fall, and she loves it. She lived in North East previously, so you can see why. If you want to listen to WDVE, I think that they're on the Net. I used to work at Homestead Works from 1978-1981, but it's all gone now. My original career choice was radio, but I became a field service engineer in industrial instrumentation and control systems. These two AM stations play prepaid programming during the day, and the remaining time is used to play commercial-free music. Sometimes there is a DJ there, and they play like KQV and 13Q did back in the day. The rest of the time the station is computer controlled, with a shuffle function like Winamp. Considering that, the fact that during any six-hour cycle I get to hear five or more Carpenters songs has got me spoiled rotten!
I've asked for the "airtime" for my 49th birthday, and Caleb says that as soon as he's recovered from his hernia operation (been there, done that) he will schedule me for a Sunday evening. He's just enough of a rebel (he added Hurricane Smith at my request!) to let me play cuts from Karen's solo album. If I remember correctly, B94 added "Into The Night" by Benny Mardonis (sp?) to their playlist many years after its initial success, and it became a nationwide hit again. All Karen needs is a chance, and the magic will happen all over again.

[Dave]

Peter, you are absolutely correct. As much as I'd like to believe that if something good had happened for Karen in that time frame, the truth is that the damage to her heart (in a physical sense) had already happened and was a time bomb. That's why, in my story, I had her visit a cardiac specialist who found a torn valve. When I wrote the story, or more correctly, when it consumed me, I used Feb. 4, 1982 as a convienient reference point. One year to go. In reality, the time to have stopped it was in 1974, when Richard says symptoms first began appearing. And it's why I wrote of him telling me of her anorexic tendencies. In the real world, as I've posted elsewhere, anorexics are just like any other person with self-abusive behavior. This comes from the March 2004 issue of Redbook. I can only speculate as to what her teenage years were like. Simple things like dating, socializing, forming networks. There have been many child stars who were suddenly thrust into the limelight and were unable to cope with it, and Richard alludes as much in the liner notes in the "Gold" album. Karen was only 16 when all of the fame happened. So, what happened? In my humble opinion, the drive to remain atop the charts consumed both of them. Playing 200 concerts a year is simply too much, and it reminds me of something my late father used to tell me when I was younger: "Get all the overtime you can. It might never come again." The extension of this blue-collar work ethic from a middle-class family could explain a lot. Once I passed 45, I decided that the only thing that was truly mine in this life was my time, and I was going to exert more control over who used my time. So what happened? When Karen was 20, the big time came calling. The next five years are a critical time in everyones' life, mine included. I graduated DeVry when I was 20, moved home, found a job, broke up with a girl I had been dating for four years because we became two different people, and when I was 22 I met my Karen, my wife. I had thought that if I wasn't married by the time I was 25 I would never get married. Well, I was 24. Karen had a very strong drive to want a "normal" family-type life, and even something that simple eluded her. Here she was, a famous, beautiful woman in her twenties, and nothing was working. On the liner notes for "I Need To Be In Love", which to me is nothing less than a beacon cry, Richard says that that was what she was feeling at that time. I knew my wife for a year before we engaged, and we were married 15 months after that. What was it that prompted Tom to simply give up, saying "You can have her back"? From what I hear, Ollie North is giving up more secrets! Something really bad must have happened, or else they were just incompatible, and the effort of forcing the relationship eventually destroyed it. Maybe she was looking for the man in "Close To You", and created a fantasy? Who knows? Like I said, it's just all speculation on my part. As far as the eating disorders go, I have posted a link to send Mary-Kate Olsen a letter of encouragement. I have speculated that if the Internet had existed 25 or 30 years ago Karen would've seen that her fan base loved her, and maybe she would have had that happy ending I "gave" Karen in the year 2035.

[enigma]

Let us not forget there was a song released in the 1980's that became a hit called When I'm With You by a disbanded Canadian band called Sherif (sp) whos self titled album went unnoticed in the US when it was released (It had to be taken out of the deleted catalogue when the song became a hit) it also happened with Lady by Styx and all it took was a Chicago radio station to put the single back on its playlist in heavy rotation. Indeed it does happen so Steve play Karens solo material you never know what can happen.

[enigma]

I meant to say Dave not Steve oops

[JIM]

Wow Enigma!
That is very interesting.
I truly feel that with consistant
pressure from enough people working
in concert, we could see a a bullet
return to the billboard charts with
the Carpenters next to it. I know
a lot of site members have mixed
feelings about the solo album but
I feel it holds the most promise
in capturing the attention of people who remeber the Carpenters
but are unaware that this album
was ever made.
JIM

[Will]

Rick said:

"Make Believe It's Your First Time" from Karen's solo was recorded first. I prefer Karen's solo album much more, it's very intimate with the piano and vocal. richard's arrangement on "Voice Of The Heart" was way too sugary, it just doesn't have the same impact as the solo album version.

As for Karen's voice when she recorded these songs there hadn't been any inactivity as they were recorded in 1979-1980 shortly after "Christmas Portrait" had been recorded. I don't think Karen's voice was any less, she had full range even on the last songs she recorded. But I think for the solo album she was experimenting with a slightly different vocal style. I think she sounded great. You should hear the unreleased songs from her solo sessions - she sings with all her might. "If I Had You" is a fine example of an excellent vocal from Karen.

As far as a little success, I feel that if the album had been released in 1980 it would have been more than a little success, I'm certain she would have scored atleast one #1 hit with this work.

... just my thoughts

Well said and ditto.