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Post by cam83 on Feb 9, 2004 19:38:47 GMT -5
Hi All, I was just visiting another Carpenters list, and there was a bit of a controversy going on, regarding Karen's solo album. It kind of shocked me to hear their negative thoughts on her. They were basically slamming her and her choice of songs. It kind of upset me. I mean, I know that people are to have their own say and right, but, sometimes I think, they can get a bit carried away. I felt bad for Karen, because, imagine all the stress and feelings she must have felt to have to give up her solo album. Yes, she did shelve it, but I feel that she was so pressured to do that. Anyhow,
My thoughts, Cameron
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 9, 2004 22:50:24 GMT -5
I'm with you on this one Cam. I feel Karen's solo album is fantastic. Yes, maybe there are 2 or 3 songs she could have done without and replaced maybe with some of the unreleased songs like, "Something's Missing" or "Love Making Love To You". But overall I give the album a very good rating. I especially like "Making Love In The Afternoon", "Guess I Just Lost My Head" and "If I Had You".
As for Karen herself, I believe she really loved this album. It really is a shame it wasn't released when it should have been. It really would have caught peoples attention. It would have been the most unexpected thing to be heard from Karen Carpenter, and it would have been a delight.
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Post by Will on Feb 10, 2004 23:35:51 GMT -5
I'm with you two. I really enjoy Karen's solo album and think it would have been a great start on a solo career for Karen.
I love the work that Richard and Karen performed together, but Karen proved many times that her abilities could cross over into many different genres including Country, Jazz, 50s, 40s, and more.
Regarding other people's negative comments -- when you look around the web and see lots of negative comments on pretty much every subject you begin to realize some folks use the anonymity of the web to let their negative emotions out. Some folks like to be controversial just for fun. And sometimes it's just a difference of opinion and that's okay, too because without differences it would get kind of boring around here.
When all is said and done the truth is that musicians are artists and they express their art through their music. Karen's expression in her solo work is important because it tells us so much about her at that time in her life.
Imagine if we didn't have the solo album -- what a loss!
I, for one, trust her choices.
Thanks Karen!
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 11, 2004 1:31:42 GMT -5
I'm with you two. I really enjoy Karen's solo album and think it would have been a great start on a solo career for Karen. I love the work that Richard and Karen performed together, but Karen proved many times that her abilities could cross over into many different genres including Country, Jazz, 50s, 40s, and more. Regarding other people's negative comments -- when you look around the web and see lots of negative comments on pretty much every subject you begin to realize some folks use the anonymity of the web to let their negative emotions out. Some folks like to be controversial just for fun. And sometimes it's just a difference of opinion and that's okay, too because without differences it would get kind of boring around here. When all is said and done the truth is that musicians are artists and they express their art through their music. Karen's expression in her solo work is important because it tells us so much about her at that time in her life. Imagine if we didn't have the solo album -- what a loss! I, for one, trust her choices. Thanks Karen! Bravo, very well said Will. It would be a loss if this solo album didn't exist. Karen showed another side of her personality here. I hear people saying the songs don't have that "chill factor". Maybe that's true, but not all good or great music has to have that "chill factor", a great album could just be one that's enjoyable, fun and entertaining to listen to. I enjoy this more fun, less serious side of Karen very much. Anyway "Make Believe It's Your First Time" and "If I Had You" both have that "chill factor", in my opinion.
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Post by Moe on Feb 12, 2004 21:53:04 GMT -5
Karen's solo work is a solid CD, but I still prefer the work she did with Richard. That being said, I still think the solo project would have been a hit and had some hit singles on the charts. It is a shame that we will never know, now.
my two cents...
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Post by Sammy on Feb 15, 2004 11:31:10 GMT -5
I agree with you Moe, the solo album should have been released in 1980. Regardless of what Richard or A&M execs say. The songs were strong and there are definitely atleast 3 or 4 songs with hit potential.
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Post by Rick Henry on Jun 18, 2004 21:05:22 GMT -5
Another comment on the solo album. The album would have fit in quite well with the directions others at that time were going. Look at Olivia Newton-John with the song "Magic" in 1980 or Kim Carnes with "Bette Davis Eyes" in 1981, even Barbra Streisand's style changed with "Guilty" in 1980. Karen's solo was much better than anything Olivia Newton-John or Kim Carnes put out at the time and look how very successful they both were in 1980-81.
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Post by enigma on Jun 19, 2004 2:16:35 GMT -5
OK I'm probably not in the majority here but I thought Karens solo album was rather weak. Some of it had too much disco flavor and I am not fond of disco music. Some tracks were great but not the album as a whole. It was however a start to what could have been a great solo career. I found that Karen did not seem confident on alot of the vocals on the album and this was probably do to a combination of adapting to working without Richard and the new vocal direction Phil Ramone was pushing her to take as well as the subject matter of the songs (she did not seem to truely believe or be comfortable with what she was singing). I did like the edgier material on the album and the new direction she was going. Like her Carpenters career I think she would have got more confident and confortable with her new direction and adapted to making records without Richard and followups would have been much better. I do like this album and find it a refreshing change from Carpenters records but don't hear the quality or song selection as good as Carpenters records.
I think Karen got shafted on this record because she initially got support on the project only to have it rejected. I don't know how she felt at the time but I felt bad for her and disappointed at both A&M and Richard for their treatment of the matter at the time. It should have been released it was good enough to be a minor hit at worst.
I am glad we finally got to hear this "new" Karen and enjoyed listening to the foundation of what I know would have been a successful solo career.
Just one mans opinion
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Post by cam83 on Jun 19, 2004 12:36:29 GMT -5
Hi All, What amazes me about the KAREN CARPENTER solo album is how Karen effortlessly moves from one style to another in a wink of an eye. She was just one of those singers who could sing ANYTHING and sound marvelous! Truly! Now on her solo album, there might be some songs I am not a huge fan of, like STILL IN LOVE WITH YOU but I admire the fact she chose to record it. I love the country-ish ALL BECAUSE OF YOU. She sounds heavenly. LAST ONE SINGIN THE BLUES is amazing. When you hear her instructing the band, during the work lead. And her vocals on that song are amazing. My BODY KEEPS CHANGING MY MIND is also divine. IF I HAD YOU and MAKING LOVE IN THE AFTERNOON are wonderfully sung songs showcasing Karen's style. And you have to remember, Karen listened to hundreds of songs, and she was the one that made the decision to record the songs. As Phil Ramone says, she was the one who had the reigns in her hand, that there was not one area of this project that she was not involved in. I thought that was neat. I mean, of course, this was HER solo album. It was not meant to be compared to her CARPENTERS albums, as arrangements, overdubs, etc was Richard's area of expertise. So when he accused her of stealing their sound, I was shocked. The overdubs on her solo album are far GREATER and more INTRICATE than any CARPENTERS album, in my opinion. Anyways, I am very passionate about Karen and her solo effort. I know that had it been released, it would have had a hit single or two on it. I mean, this record was being marketed and talked about as a BLOCKBUSTER. Then the company decides to just shelve it because it wasn't good enough. What a blow to Karen's self esteem. It angers me that they caused her so much pain, and all because she wanted to try something new, and do something different. She wanted to spread her wings.
My thoughts, Cameron
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Post by Song4You on Jun 19, 2004 16:13:45 GMT -5
Personally, I like Karen's solo album. I like how it's different from what she was used to doing. I think we see a different side of Karen coming out in this album. She seems to be having a lot of fun with this album. Just adding my opinion...
Laura
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Post by Benn on Jun 19, 2004 19:09:21 GMT -5
In my opionion, Karen would probably still be alive today if her solo album had been released in 1980! For Herb Albert to suggest she make a solo album with Phil Ramone in 1979, and then to call the finished record unreleasable in 1980, was garbage. Richard Should have argued for it's release, instead of probably taking "I told you so" attitude. Quincy Jones tried to get Herb to release it, and Mr. Jones is a music genius! To quote critic Paul Grein: "The solo album didn't get any good reviews when it was released in 1996". Neither did anyone, (that I aware of), agree with being labeled unreleaseable. If it wasn't that good, neither was it that bad. In 1979, Karen should have seen Dr. Raymond Vath, (who treated Cherry Boone O"Neil), and checked into a hospital to deal with her eating disorders, which had been a problem since 1974 or 1975. Since she did not, (and eating disorders were little understood in 1979), her solo album should have been released in 1980. The rejection of Karen's solo album was not the start of her eating disorders; it was the beginning of the end of her life. ;D Benn
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Post by enigma on Jun 20, 2004 0:38:49 GMT -5
Cam I agree with alot of what your saying and just a few things on Richareds handling of Karens solo record. First of all Richard accusing Karen of stealing the Carpenters sound was rediculous it was not a Carpenters sounding record and I believe it was an attempt to break away from the Carpenter sound and image. Second the linear notes on Made In America state that Karen decided not to release her solo record which was a lie she did not have a choice A&M would not release it and I believe Richard supported this decision. I don't know if it was jealousy or arragence but I never got the impression that Richard ever supported Karens solo effort (even when he gave her his blessing I was never convinced he was 100% behind the project) both he and A&M dropped the ball on this one.
I don't know if this rejection caused any further progression in her eating disorder but Karen put her heart and soul into this record and I'm sure she was both proud and excited about this release. It must have been humiliating and a huge blow to Karen to present a project she worked so hard on only to have it rejected. I also find it funny that the Lovelines album contained alot of Karens solo material on it (the album was even named after Karens solo song) not unreleasable after all was it Richard?
This album probably would not have ever seen the light of day if Karen had not passed away but either way I am glad it did finally get released for I own something that is truely Karens I consider it a gift from Karen to her fans and it will always have more special meaning to me than Carpenters records even if the album as a whole is weaker. BTW with any solo artist that was part of a huge group or duo comparisons between the artist (Karen) and the group/duo (Carpenters) are enevidible.
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Post by Rick Henry on Jun 20, 2004 1:21:09 GMT -5
Wow some very interesting statements here. I have to agree with Cam in his earlier post when he made the comment that the overdubs on Karen's solo album are far GREATER and more INTRICATE than any CARPENTERS album. Listen to the vocal work on "If I Had You", it's totally amazing. The overdubs on "Lovelines" really make the song come alive and done so very well, Karen's dubbed vocal has a sort of electrifying sound on it. Phil Ramone took Karen into new territory and I think he was a huge success in the end result. I think the album is quite solid. I really don't want to say it's better or worse than any Carpenters album, because the solo album is really in a league of it's own. But I will say it definitely holds it's own amongst Carpenters albums.
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Post by Will on Jun 20, 2004 23:19:59 GMT -5
I also support and love the solo work.
The overdubbing is amazing.
The songs fit together better than most C albums.
This album shouldn't be directly compared to other C works -- it's different. I would have been disappointed if she had tried to create a C sounding album without Richard.
She was 29 at the time -- she seems to demonstrate a desire to work with more mature subject matter.
This album turned out to be one more thing in her life she ultimately didn't have control over.
Good reviews (especially 16 years after the fact) don't mean a thing to me. Who's doing the reviewing? Are they capable of writing and performing music? I'm really interested in only one review -- my own.
I especially like IF WE TRY.
The more I listen, the better I like it.
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Post by Boat2Sail on Jun 21, 2004 0:31:17 GMT -5
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ThomB
CERTIFIED GOLD MEMBER
Posts: 110
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Post by ThomB on Jun 21, 2004 1:20:16 GMT -5
I really think it's a shame that the solo album was not released in 1980 as it should have been. I think that it really crushed Karen. She put so much of her heart and soul into it, she really believed in this album. We can't change the way things turned out, but reallly things should have been different. I think the solo album was top rate.
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Post by JIM on Jun 21, 2004 5:20:51 GMT -5
Like the rest of you, I feel Karen and Phil had the right idea, at the right time! I have stated this so many times but I feel that Richard should have taken Karens lead for a change. As much as I love MIA, I have to say that it is weak compared to LoveLines. I wish that Richard and A&M could have recognized the need to release a radically new sound to capture the publics attention. In an ideal past it would have been nice have seen a colaboration between Rich and Karen concerninng a come back album In retrospect it seems that Richard and A&M where very bullheaded and determined not to tamper with the Carpenters image but in my opinion this was a total lack of vision. As others at the site have said and I totally agree, this hurt her at a time when she needed all the support she could get. JIM
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Dave
Ultra Emissary
"sleeping in the arms of the cosmos..."
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Dave on Jun 21, 2004 20:45:58 GMT -5
I finally had the chance to listen to it today...without a steering wheel in my hand. My only gripe is the engineering. You have to turn it up to hear "Lovelines", and then "All Because Of You" is too loud! I can do a comparison with only one song "Make Believe", because it's on "Voices" and the "Gold" album. Two entirely different arrangements, and I like the "Voices" arrangement better, and not just because we get a small bit of Karen's normal voice. So, which one was recorded first? Richard doesn't say on the "Gold" album. I remember reading an interview Billy Joel gave in the '80s saying that time was causing him to have to give up trying to reach certain notes, and that seems to be the case on this album. Whether it's the selection of material or stress, or whatever, this album does not showcase her voice well at all. Don't get me wrong, I like the album. Maybe Karen's voice was "cold" because of years of inactivity. I went to a Neil Diamond concert once, and his voice took one full song to "warm up" to normal. He sounded like, well, bad. Like a cold carbureted car engine. In the early '80s, radio was still recovering from the disco phase, and there was a second British invasion, followed by percussion-heavy Australians like Men At Work and (they might be from New Zealand) the Thompson Twins. Disco music was back as well. I remember dancing to "It's A Mistake" at a disco in Yugoslavia in August 1983. Adult contemporary radio (AC) was just beginning then. If I was in Richard's shoes then, I'd have done a two-pronged release, with "Make Believe It's Your First Time" being released to the AC format stations, and "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" to the Top 40/Dance stations. Richard could've even done a "techno" version, around six minutes long for the dance clubs only. Overall, I think that it would have been a good jumping off point for Karen, and maybe a small success at that point in her life would've meant the world to her.
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