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Post by Moe on Oct 18, 2003 16:56:12 GMT -5
Hi all-
I am fairly new to your site so forgive me if this has already been discussed. My question is concerning Karen's voice on "Made in America." I remember one of the reasons that Richard didn't like Karen's solo album was because she was singing too high and part of her magic was in her lower register. (I don't know if this was from the A&E bio or the VH1 story.)
I remember when "Made in America" came out, Karen was singing higher than the previous albums. Only rarely in songs like "Those good old dreams" and "The wedding song" does Karen hit a low note. Once Karen's solo album came out 15 years later, I thought she was singing in a similar range: higher than normal. I don't mind the higher, but I do prefer the lower range that was on the "Horizon" album. My question/comment is this: Why does Richard put down the solo work when Karen sang in the same range for the following Carpenters' album? For the most part, I don't think that her solo album is as good as the Carpenters work together, but it is still a good CD. Is it just that that her solo work did not include him?
What are your thought?
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Post by Will on Oct 18, 2003 21:30:32 GMT -5
I was thinking about K's higher range just the other day and thought I was on to something, but I'm not so sure anymore. I noticed that whenever K was singing low she sang by herself, but when she goes higher she is often accompanied by additional background vocals (R&K). I get the impression that R is a perfectionist to the n-th degree and wonder if he felt he had to hide K's not so perfect (I like it fine  higher range in a blend of voices. The harmony sounds great, but I was just wondering. We have several K&R experts here who can say more about this subject. I like K's solo album. Sometimes I'm in the mood for it and sometimes not. I definitely like the variety and I like the fact that K is producing it. I think it is amazing for a first album. Thanks for raising the subject. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 18, 2003 21:46:26 GMT -5
hi and welcome to this site...I can't say that I've ever heard the Made in Am. album, so I can't say much about that..I have listened to her solo, and I must admit I admire the determination and some great music Karen comes out with on that one. It is not standard Carps. music, though and I think Richard ( and I do love him...I'd melt if I ever met up with him) is a perfectionist. He always thought he and sis should be a team for all their music. He surely had his doubts that her solo album would be a success, and he surely didn't want to see her hurt in case it didn't go over. It may not have gone over, but he knew she wanted to do this for her own thing no matter what and they always loved and respected each other because they were a team. And her solo efforts may have clicked in to the realization that she really could do it..come what may. She had grown up to be quite a lady and not kid sister as much.
I'm a kid sister....and always will be no matter if I am ..uh.. 40...something.....!
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 18, 2003 21:47:46 GMT -5
I love Karen's higher register. she has an amazing voice, beautiful in any range. Her lower voice is her strongest point. But, I think Karen really wanted to explore that upper range of her voice a little further.
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 18, 2003 21:49:11 GMT -5
:)hey ..sorry I used the word AND ..so much!
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 18, 2003 21:52:46 GMT -5
:)hey ..sorry I used the word AND ..so much! That's okay I tend to use the words LOVE, AMAZING and BEAUTIFUL quite a bit when I talk about Karen. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 18, 2003 21:52:46 GMT -5
:)hi Rick..indeed!..no one can sing like her exactly..and that's saying a lot since there are so very many wonderful women who can sing!
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Post by Will on Oct 18, 2003 21:55:36 GMT -5
hi and welcome to this site...I can't say that I've ever heard the Made in Am. album, so I can't say much about that..I have listened to her solo, and I must admit I admire the determination and some great music Karen comes out with on that one. It is not standard Carps. music, though and I think Richard ( and I do love him...I'd melt if I ever met up with him) is a perfectionist. He always thought he and sis should be a team for all their music. He surely had his doubts that her solo album would be a success, and he surely didn't want to see her hurt in case it didn't go over. It may not have gone over, but he knew she wanted to do this for her own thing no matter what and they always loved and respected each other because they were a team. And her solo efforts may have clicked in to the realization that she really could do it..come what may. She had grown up to be quite a lady and not kid sister as much.
I'm a kid sister....and always will be no matter if I am ..uh.. 40...something.....! Tough situation for Richard. If she succeeds then that could be the end of the Carpenters -- I think it is clear that their success to that point was dependant on both of them. If she fails -- well, that's not good for the reasons you state above. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 18, 2003 21:56:10 GMT -5
Oh she Sooooo does fit those words!
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 18, 2003 22:01:05 GMT -5
:)yes, I agree Willbarns...such as Donny and then Donny and Marie mostly did in the days for the Osmond Bro. as a singing group, but it worked out cuz they all worked as a family.
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Post by Will on Oct 18, 2003 22:08:00 GMT -5
:)yes, I agree Willbarns...such as Donny and then Donny and Marie mostly did in the days for the Osmond Bro. as a singing group, but it worked out cuz they all worked as a family. You (and everyone else) can call me Will. If the album had been released and it succeeded what would have happened? Was it clear that R was coming back? If he came back and they had a so-so album (extra pressure on R) would they have one tour with a combination of both songs or two separate tours? Seems like one tour is enough. |
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 19, 2003 4:11:43 GMT -5
I like K's solo album. Sometimes I'm in the mood for it and sometimes not. I definitely like the variety and I like the fact that K is producing it. I think it is amazing for a first album. Hi, willbarn. You have say it. I especially like the unreleased solo work than the first Karen's solo. Better or no than her work with R, is interesting hear K in a different surrender. |
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Post by cam83 on Oct 20, 2003 16:01:20 GMT -5
Hi All,
I think on the Made In America album, one of my ulitimate favorites....Karen sings beautifully...and for me, it's not really a question if she is singing too high, or too low...she sings wonderfully. I think when singing "Live" she could either sing loud, or soft...she had a very rich voice. I think each song would call for a different mood....and I don't mind that she would sing high. It was a part of her range. She had a 4 octave range and could lower the basement of her voice and raise the roof with the high notes. If you listen to her song DON'T TRY TO WIN ME BACK AGAIN...you hear those high overdubbed voices in the background, and when I first heard it, I felt chills run thru me...I could not believe that that was Karen. I never knew she could sing that high...Even Tom Bahler said the same thing, when she sang in a high range to him, in perfect pitch...he hadn't known that she could sing that high, and her response...the money's in the basment!
I think it is sad that Richard felt she was singing too high on her album...it was HER album by the way, and not his. He should have stayed out of her business affairs in that regard, in my opinion. She was recording this solo project, because he TOOK the time off to get well from his addiction. And also, so what if she sang high. It was HER voice! I think that is one of the biggest things that bother me about that partnership...is that he had absolute control over that voice in some ways...that she would spend hours on a phrase, recording over and over....because Richard was a tyrant in the studio...she was very hard on herself...Of course Richard states that Karen wouldn't listen to anyone tell her what to sing...that she was strongwilled...but so many songs and decisions were made without her input in some ways...She didn't want to sing Superstar(and so sang it in one take and then became a gold best seller)...she didn't like Solitaire(but Richard wanted her to record it for him, and even after it was recorded, she still did not like it.
I know that they loved each other, respected each other, and made fantastic music together. I just feel that she felt every aspect in her life was controlled, including how she should sing, what chord, what note etc. And that makes a big difference when someone tells you HOW to sing. And for Karen, it just added to her problems. So for her solo project, she is singing higher, and lower notes...showcasing her immense range! I am sure her range was powerful as Barbra Streisand, but just in a lower key...
My thoughts rambling on and on...
Cam
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 20, 2003 20:02:14 GMT -5
Excuse me, It's : "You have told it" |
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 20, 2003 20:08:22 GMT -5
Hi All, I think on the Made In America album, one of my ulitimate favorites....Karen sings beautifully...and for me, it's not really a question if she is singing too high, or too low...she sings wonderfully. I think when singing "Live" she could either sing loud, or soft...she had a very rich voice. I think each song would call for a different mood....and I don't mind that she would sing high. It was a part of her range. She had a 4 octave range and could lower the basement of her voice and raise the roof with the high notes. If you listen to her song DON'T TRY TO WIN ME BACK AGAIN...you hear those high overdubbed voices in the background, and when I first heard it, I felt chills run thru me...I could not believe that that was Karen. I never knew she could sing that high...Even Tom Bahler said the same thing, when she sang in a high range to him, in perfect pitch...he hadn't known that she could sing that high, and her response...the money's in the basment! I think it is sad that Richard felt she was singing too high on her album...it was HER album by the way, and not his. He should have stayed out of her business affairs in that regard, in my opinion. She was recording this solo project, because he TOOK the time off to get well from his addiction. And also, so what if she sang high. It was HER voice! I think that is one of the biggest things that bother me about that partnership...is that he had absolute control over that voice in some ways...that she would spend hours on a phrase, recording over and over....because Richard was a tyrant in the studio...she was very hard on herself...Of course Richard states that Karen wouldn't listen to anyone tell her what to sing...that she was strongwilled...but so many songs and decisions were made without her input in some ways...She didn't want to sing Superstar(and so sang it in one take and then became a gold best seller)...she didn't like Solitaire(but Richard wanted her to record it for him, and even after it was recorded, she still did not like it. I know that they loved each other, respected each other, and made fantastic music together. I just feel that she felt every aspect in her life was controlled, including how she should sing, what chord, what note etc. And that makes a big difference when someone tells you HOW to sing. And for Karen, it just added to her problems. So for her solo project, she is singing higher, and lower notes...showcasing her immense range! I am sure her range was powerful as Barbra Streisand, but just in a lower key... My thoughts rambling on and on... Cam Another masterplece of you, Cam! |
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