Richard Carpenter and Paul McCartney

[kc1950]

these guys are geniuses -yet - underneath the genius - these guys get a bad rap. McCartney has always been stereotyped as a cutesy beatle with no edge. And Richard Carpenter instead of the genius who arranged and produced some of the greatest music of all time - is just labeled as a "piano player" and a goody- goody.

Bottom line is that these guys are great and should be respected a helluva lot more.

However - i think both at times have made mistakes in terms of trumpeting their greatness. RC comes across as droll, and emotionless when he talks during Carpenter interviews. Plus - he has made several mistakes including shelving Karen's solo album - I think this hurts his legacy a bit. RC is a genius and i don't understand why he doesn't produce more and develop somebody - Alicia Keyes , Christina Aguliera, others - And has RC done American Idol - that would be good -
I love the guy - and it makes me mad when he gets disrespected

[kc1950]

More - Paul McCartney once said "he loved We've only just begun" because it was his and Linda's favorite song and they identified with it as newlyweds -

Karen and Richard sat in on a session in 1974 with McCartney and his brother in UK - they were in awe - And I would have luv'd to have heard Karen and Richard singing harmony on Ram album or on Wings stuff - maybe even with Toni Tennielle

Also - John Lennon was walking down a street in LA and saw Karen and said "i know who you are and we've got a lovely voice, luv" - I mean how great is that -

Karen was a fox - Even Elvis apparently hit on her so there you have it

[Rick Henry]

I think there are a few reasons why Richard Carpenters gets a bad rap. First because he hasn't been a success at producing or arranging any other artists after Karen. He's tried but has yet to succeed without Karen's voice.

That doesn't mean I don't like or respect him, I'm just stating the facts.

I think Richard Carpenter might do well in working with some class acts like Norah Jones or Diana Krall.

I also agree that his part in shelving Karen's album has hurt his legacy some. That should have never happened. I think it hurts his credibility when he says the album is only adequate. As Karen's solo album is actually a musical triumph. It is extremely well produced.

I know I will get some flack for the next comment I'm about to make. But, I also think Richard gets a bad rap because of Karen Carpenter. Richard yes is extremely talented but Karen was just such a natural at everything she did. Beyond her perfect pitched angelic voice Karen also had such a magnetic personality that everybody else around her was overshadowed. Richard along with the rest in the band always came second (in the public eye) to Karen. I have to admit even I liked Richard, but loved Karen.

[kc1950]

RC is the genius - but god you are so right about Karen's ease and brilliance - it was effortless - she was an amazing natural talent - so there it is -

I think RC comes across as arrogant and a know it all at times in interviews - Knowing how close RC and KC were - it had to destroy him to see KC fall like that - The solo album he was 1,000 % wrong on that and he knows it hurt him

Did you say how KC handled that? Like a professional - she tried to salvage what she could and the learning experiences in NY made her better person

[enigma]

I will warn the reader this may create some flack for me and if you love Richard you may want to skip this post (its not that bad)
OK first off I do not consider Richard a genius he is gifted he is talented he was successful but no genius in my books. Also Richard bad rap is somewhat earned on his part he has said some rather insensitive and controversial comments in the past even some regarding Karen heself I will give him credit for being honest with these comments but nonetheless they earn him some of his bad rap. Also his whole handling of the solo record was atrotious he did and said all the wrong things and he lied about alot of the events surrounding the solo record he simply came off really bad with that whole situation I felt in this case Richard dropped the ball. I am not certain that Karen gave Richard a bad rap she was his biggest supported next to Agnes Carpenter but she absolutely overshadowed him and the rest of the band that is natural being a lead singer that this would occur. Also Karen had a presence whether she wanted to or not not everybody has a stage presence Karen had that presence she was destined to be a front woman. Another thing that has earned Richard a bad rap is his secretive handing of events his resistance to giving info and gag orders on Karens inner circle create alot of suspicion as to whethere he is hiding something or truely protecting Karen as he says he is. So there is alot of cloud that surrounds Richard is it deserved some of it is but perhaps not all of it. I do acknowledge Richard contributions to the Carpenters he is a big part of the Carpenters sound but there is no way I would bother with the Carpenters without Karen she is THE reason I listen to them. As for Richard producing other artists he has tried with some success but his work with the Carpenters will always overshadow anything he does and he simply cannot recreate the magic he had with Karen.



As for Paul McCartney again it is somewhat earned he is primarily a writer of love songs, he is hard to work with his edge is limited. However there is no denying his talent he consistantly writes good comercial songs is incredible live to this day and has a legacy that few artists could hope to match. I still like Pauls work to this day.

[kc1950]

Richard Carpenter lowest moment in my humble opinion is when he went off on the solo album and accused his sister of "Stealing the Carpenters sound" - that's pretty low and that just petty insecurity- That didn't help his sister's insecurity or emotional stability - That set in motion a series of career and professional short-comings that spiraled out of control and ultimately killed her - RC is a good guy and a loving brother but he didn't help Karen's emotional health by being self-centered, controlling, and acting like a jerk. His jealous and insecurity hurt his sister terribly - and she called him on it too.

KC's mother didn't exactly help Karen. Agnes' favorite was Richard. And she hurt Karen by not always being affectionate or at least supporting her - Its sad what happened - but - god - you just wish it could have been prevented - Agnes was a unemotional and very non-nurturing woman - Karen was nurturer to friend, family, and people in the band

KC had complained days before of her heart being out of her chest and of seeing black dots in front of her eyes - her body just gave out - God, it was so preventable if they just took her to hospital before feb

[Rick Henry]

Jan 26, 2009 0:16:40 GMT -5 enigma said:

I will warn the reader this may create some flack for me and if you love Richard you may want to skip this post (its not that bad)
OK first off I do not consider Richard a genius he is gifted he is talented he was successful but no genius in my books. Also Richard bad rap is somewhat earned on his part he has said some rather insensitive and controversial comments in the past even some regarding Karen heself I will give him credit for being honest with these comments but nonetheless they earn him some of his bad rap. Also his whole handling of the solo record was atrotious he did and said all the wrong things and he lied about alot of the events surrounding the solo record he simply came off really bad with that whole situation I felt in this case Richard dropped the ball. I am not certain that Karen gave Richard a bad rap she was his biggest supported next to Agnes Carpenter but she absolutely overshadowed him and the rest of the band that is natural being a lead singer that this would occur. Also Karen had a presence whether she wanted to or not not everybody has a stage presence Karen had that presence she was destined to be a front woman. Another thing that has earned Richard a bad rap is his secretive handing of events his resistance to giving info and gag orders on Karens inner circle create alot of suspicion as to whethere he is hiding something or truely protecting Karen as he says he is. So there is alot of cloud that surrounds Richard is it deserved some of it is but perhaps not all of it. I do acknowledge Richard contributions to the Carpenters he is a big part of the Carpenters sound but there is no way I would bother with the Carpenters without Karen she is THE reason I listen to them. As for Richard producing other artists he has tried with some success but his work with the Carpenters will always overshadow anything he does and he simply cannot recreate the magic he had with Karen.



As for Paul McCartney again it is somewhat earned he is primarily a writer of love songs, he is hard to work with his edge is limited. However there is no denying his talent he consistantly writes good comercial songs is incredible live to this day and has a legacy that few artists could hope to match. I still like Pauls work to this day.

E... I have to agree with you on the genius comment. I think Richard is very talented but to elevate him to genius level is a big step. He did a great job in arranging, orchestrating and producing Carpenters but it went no further than that. Most genius musicians can take their expertise to varying levels and find success with a number of projects. Although, Richard was hugely successful with Carpenters his scope did not go much further. Those few artists he did try producing ended up sounding like Carpenters with a different voice. It was not much of a stretch. I felt his works with Scott Grimes and others lacked originality.

E.... you touch on another thing with Richard which frustrates me is his secretive nature and "gag orders" (for lack of a better term) he puts on people. I have experienced this in various ways and don't like it. There is nothing wrong with letting people know what has really happened. I think that's one of the reasons why I do not care much for the 1989 television movie The Karen Carpenter Story, it is very protected and barely skims over a lot of what really happened. I think Todd Haynes' barbie movie tells more truth.

I also agree that Richard is a driving force behind Carpenters (but not the only force, maybe the primary) and should have been recognized more for his contributions. On the same point Richard did receive 5 Grammy award nominations for his arrangements of Carpenters songs... that's some pretty good recognition from the industry.

As for McCartney I love all his music and have purchased every studio album right up to the current. Some recent hits I really like are Dance Tonight and Fine Line.

[molee]

Genius or not, I wish I had half of Richard's talents and abilities.

Mo Lee