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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 2, 2008 8:17:13 GMT -5
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 2, 2008 23:33:01 GMT -5
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It does take guts as you say, I certainly agree that Karen as well as Richard, but especially Karen are also my idols.
I must say OBSESSED is surely the correct word when I think of the Carpenters. It is a rare day that I don't feel a real need to listen, and especially watch a video or two of them.
No other music comes close to theirs. No other woman dead or alive do I hold the special love and respect that I do for Karen.
She remains a true constant in my days.
Indeed sad she's not around any more. And the horrid disease that possessed her.
But her voice and smile sure help me face problems of life.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 3, 2008 9:23:31 GMT -5
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It does take guts as you say, I certainly agree that Karen as well as Richard, but especially Karen are also my idols. I must say OBSESSED is surely the correct word when I think of the Carpenters. It is a rare day that I don't feel a real need to listen, and especially watch a video or two of them. No other music comes close to theirs. No other woman dead or alive do I hold the special love and respect that I do for Karen. She remains a true constant in my days. Indeed sad she's not around any more. And the horrid disease that possessed her. But her voice and smile sure help me face problems of life. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 3, 2008 9:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by beaner on Oct 3, 2008 12:24:35 GMT -5
Good job, Smoothie! Karen has ALWAYS been my idol from Day #1 which is about 35 years now. From singing along with her to EVERY SINGLE SONG, to displaying both her and Richard's pictures all over my apartment and now my house, to seeing them in concert, to dedicating my Carpenterville and Karen's Kondo projects to them, especially Karen.
As I have said before, it was hard for anyone in my family not to hear the name Karen Carpenter and not think of me at the same time.
I can remember how much I looked forward to receiving their monthly newsletters and wondering what souveniers I would be buying next. Not to mention my WONDERFUL trip to California in 1984, where I able to see so many Carpenter-related places including her (then) gravesite where I knelt on the kneeler and spoke softly by saying "Hi Karen, I am finally getting to meet you; not the way I intended but none the less, I'm here!
Beaner
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 3, 2008 13:15:26 GMT -5
  I'd have to be affirmative, here.....Karen Carpenter, as well as Richard, (at one point) to be totally honest, were quite "idolized" by me. True statement. And, I never ever DIDN'T tell anyone who asked that it was true. I never hid the fact that Carpenters were my idols, musically - as was Billy Joel. Two very different sort of performers, yet I idolized them both, and still do, to a certain extent. Here's what I mean by that....I continue to listen to Carpenters, almost daily. I never tire of the beautiful arrangements, of course, Karen's voice, the harmonies, the music. It never gets old for me. I suppose I idolized K&R for various reasons - the fact that they were making records - they were playing concerts - and the sound they made was a one of a kind....an absolutely gorgeous sound. Their musical prowess was seemingly limitless - they were, in my estimation, in a class by themselves.....and their music is timeless. Simply put, just awesome.  So, I can proudly admit I have idolized the Carpenters. Not so much these days.....at least now it's idolization, with reservation - how's that? You asked for the truth, you know. *winks* So, there it is. I think, perhaps, those that know me well can certainly figure out why I'm phrasing it this way. What an interesting topic. How'd you think of this one, Rick? |
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Post by carpentersgermany on Oct 4, 2008 9:08:27 GMT -5
First of all, I have to agree - thank you for this very interesting topic, Rick!
I definitely enjoyed reading your posts, some made me smile, some really touched me..
Being totally honest, I have to admit that I'm feeling a little bit different..
As much as I love the Carpenters, their music and Karen Carpenter - I could not say that Karen Carpenter is my idol.
In general I'm pretty far away from idolizing anybody..
I think there are different reasons for this.
One might be that people in Germany are somehow afraid of any kind of idolizing (in reference to our history). Since years we have a big discussion over here.
Some of our actors, singers etc. often refer to the USA, sometimes almost complaining, like "The Americans love their stars. They care for them and admire them - Germans don't do so."
Another reason, a more personal one, is that I think idolizing Karen Carpenter would take the human away from her.
I much more enjoy thinking of her as a human being. A human being that, even without knowing her personally, I definitely care about a lot, that I admire, but with the imperfection inherent to each human being.
Since I (sadly) never met her personally, I created my own image of Karen Carpenter, might be that this image is far away from the "real" Karen, but it's my image.
And I think this image resembles much more a friend (someone that you love and care about in spite of or maybe especially because his imperfections) rather than an idol.
Please don't get me wrong, even if my post is a bit different to the ones before, I have a lot of respect for what each of you said..
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 4, 2008 10:34:58 GMT -5
I don't idolize anyone. Like CG was saying ... it takes away the humanity of the individual. I think my thoughts and feeling for Karen and her God given talents would have to fall under amazement and admiration for her gifts. I'm just happy she shared them with the world.
It's time to call you out, Rick. You often start something with the promise of posting your thoughts soon, but then you sit back and wait for others. What do YOU think about this topic?
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 4, 2008 12:11:13 GMT -5
I don't idolize anyone. Like CG was saying ... it takes away the humanity of the individual. I think my thoughts and feeling for Karen and her God given talents would have to fall under amazement and admiration for her gifts. I'm just happy she shared them with the world. It's time to call you out, Rick. You often start something with the promise of posting your thoughts soon, but then you sit back and wait for others. What do YOU think about this topic? |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 4, 2008 15:16:44 GMT -5
 Okay, where do I start... Gee, it's really easy to see Karen Carpenter as an idol, seeing she passed away at such a very young age and has been gone now for over 25 years. Add her ethereally Heavenly smooth voice and it's easy for most anyone to look at her as being a deity of some sort... an immortal supreme being. The truth is; Karen Carpenter was not an enlightened supernatural being. She was simply a human being with many many fault...albeit she was a human being with a spectacular talent for music. Not only was it a spectacular talent, she was one of the finest of all-time. Karen Carpenter truly stood head and shoulders above the rest... millions to this very day will attest to that. Is Karen Carpenter my idol? No! As much as I love(d) her and as much as her voice has touched me, I never worshiped her or was obsessed with her. One would think that the developer of three (not just one) Carpenters/Karen Carpenter web sites would be obsessed. If I'm not obsessed than what am I? First, I am a businessman and have made the Internet my business. In 2001 I saw an opportunity in building a Carpenters web site. There were others at the time, but I felt Carpenters deserved something first rate. I took the time to build a web site with tons of information and used great pictures of Carpenters. I got tired of seeing web sites featuring all these sad (and sickly) looking pictures of Karen. There so many other pictures of Karen... fun pictures, healthy pictures. I also felt it was time people were educated on the real music of the Carpenters. for such a long time people have only focused on the hits... and we all know that Carpenters' musical oeuvre reaches far beyond "Close To You" and "Top Of The World". Second, I love the internet and have started several different types of web sites. Yes, I do spend more time with my Carpenters entities, but that's because they are the most successful of my web sites. Let's face it Carpenters are hugely popular. If I were to put the same time into developing an Elton John or Elvis Presley site, I'm sure these would be greeted with the same amount of success... but really Carpenters is time consuming enough. Back, to Karen Carpenter... I love her voice. I always thought she was a very attractive woman (mostly between 1969 t0 1975). I loved the fact that she played drums... that just gave her a unique edge above the other female vocalists on the music scene. I have a tremendous amount of respect and love for Karen Carpenter and her music. Never did I ever look upon her as some sort of super human being. Even before I knew about her struggles and challenges. Even before I found out about how bitter and vengeful she was when Tom Burris left her. Even before I found out about her obsession/disorder with food. Before I found out how rude Karen was to most all of Richard Carpenter's girlfriends. I could go on... but the end result is Karen Carpenter was a simple human being with a slew of issues and ups and downs. Sound familiar? I have a hard time seeing anybody as more than a human being. I am very big on seeing all people as equals... no matter who it is. Mahatma Gandhi is my equal, Confucius is my equal, Mother Teresa is my equal, Princess Diana is my equal, Jennifer Lopez is my equal, Will Smith is my equal, Michael Phelps is my equal (and when I say my equal, I mean all of us)... these people were/are no better than any one of us here. Does that mean I don't respect them for their achievements... by all means, no. I have immense respect for anybody's accomplishments... big and small alike. I recall when Karen Carpenter passed, a very good friend of mine called and mentioned, "I know that she was your idol". I became offended by that comment. I told him, I did not idolize Karen, I simply loved her voice. I love Karen Carpenter's voice and musical abilities... nothing more and nothing less... period! |
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 4, 2008 16:37:44 GMT -5
I would have to generally agree with what you have said, CG, WJ and Rick, that as much as we recognize and love and respect Karen (of course, she has a special place in all our hearts), it is unwise to idolize her or any other person. Even the best people have serious faults and shortcomings; if we idolize a person we are putting unrealistic expectations on them, allowing ourselves to be disillusioned or hurt by a person who is just reflecting their imperfect self. What we can do is choose to focus on the best and positive a person (be it a famous person, or a friend) has to offer. So when someone we honor and respect (but not idolize) disappoints us with rudeness or anger or neglect, we can sort of shrug it off and continue loving the person, becaue we haven't put our stock in them. And the point of everyone being equal is important, too. When we show an act of kindness for even the most seemingly insignificant person, we are performing the highest deed on earth.
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Post by enigma on Oct 5, 2008 10:02:24 GMT -5
Hi I will give my take on "Karen is my idol" statement and hopefully it wont get lost in translation: My love for Karen Carpenter is no secret I have said it many times and will many more I am sure this has not and will not likely change for me. As far as being an idol no she is not my idol I do not blindly or excessively (well maybe excessive at times) admire Karen. My love and respect for Karen is well earned I listen to alot of artists Karen simply stand out from the rest of the pack she has earned my respect by being incredibly talented a great drummer a great voice and above all an unusual and unique person. The little piece of her personality I get to see, the drumming and voice that I hear the woman I see really is unusual and unique also this person has many sides whether its the smile that lights up a room or the darker side of Karen rhere is an interesting contradiction with Karen. I have as much of the Karen Carpenter story as I will ever likely have the good the bad and the ugly and yet I still love and respect her. So I feel Karen has earned my love and respect and because it has not waned over the years I know its true love and respect. I do not warship or idolize Karen I feel she has well earned the accolades that I give her there are few artists that have done that but Karen certainly has in my books. Thats the E story!   |
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Post by beaner on Oct 6, 2008 5:37:18 GMT -5
For me, I still say Karen was my idol. I did not worship the ground she walked on, nor did I ever become obsessed in a way that many fans do and cause harm and do outrageous things.
I looked upon her as my idol because I wanted to mainly sing with her, like her and for her. Music was all that surrounded my love for Karen and the songs she made me feel so good about when I would hear them and sing along to.
Of course, knowing of this person whom I thought so much of, I thought it was great that I had the opportunity to see the things that meant so much to Karen. As far as my projects that I work on, I thought that was fitting that I dedicate such work to give back some of the love that she gave me every time I would listen to her and Richard's music.
So when I hear the word Idol, it does not always have to be associated with "worshipper" and "craze", etc. The show American Idol, in fact, simply takes a person and helps them to do what they do best and possibly do great things in the process which can do wonders for people.
The dictionary definitions are as follows:
1. a. An image used as an object of worship.
b. A false god.
NEVER WAS IT THIS WAY.
2. One that is adored, often blindly or excessively.
DEFINITELY ADORED KAREN IN THE WAYS I EXPLAINED BUT NEVER BLINDLY BUT POSSIBLY MORE THAN OTHERS BUT CERTAINLY NOT MORE THAN I SHOULD HAVE BECAUSE I WAS PROUD TO DISPLAY HER PICTURES THROUGHOUT MY HOUSE AS I DO MY FAMILY AND OTHER FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES I ADMIRE AND ADORE.
3. Something visible but without substance.
SHE WAS NEVER THOUGHT OF AS THIS.
Beaner
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 6, 2008 8:39:15 GMT -5
Some good thoughts there beaner (Mary Ann). As much as I love Karen and as much of a place she has in my heart I still never felt that I idolized her, I always had immense respect for her. I did join the fan club, as I wanted to know their tour schedule and find out more about certain recordings. As for music, I did make music for quite a good amount of time and I always considered Karen Carpenter to be an influence in my music. I learned from her style, her warmth in voice and richness in voice, from the character in her voice. But, she still was not an idol to me. I've adored her for her seemingly sweet persona (which really was not always all that sweet)... but never blindly or excessively. I really didn't care whether or not others knew that I enjoyed the music of the Carpenters... it was not that important to me. If someone criticized their music - it really did not bother me... as a matter of fact I can understand how a lot of their music can be criticized. I mean when there's songs like "Sing", "Yesterday Once More (sorry Tim), "Druscilla Penny", "Piasno Picker", "Now", "I Need To Be In Love" and others... it's easy to see why people disliked their music and made fun of it... but that's just me. I always have looked upon Carpenters (and my other favorites) subjectively. |
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Post by beaner on Oct 6, 2008 12:51:17 GMT -5
This is a great topic, Rick. So many things come to mind when you think of this topic. To me, I seem to choose the words "look up to" rather than "idolize" but none-the-less that's the word in the subject line so I'm going with that.
Oddly enough, another reason why I looked up to Karen was not just for the music and VOICE, which I was taken to immediately, but going with the "idol" and "fantasize" level, it was my fantasy to think of Karen as my older sister. I had always wanted a sister and never had one so I guess when I was very young, I often thought of how it would be to have a sister like Karen. One who I could do things with, share things with and sing with. Silly, but back then, the Carpenters were pretty much the center of my life with just a bit of reality surrounding it. For most I guess it would be the opposite but having only 2 brothers, a Mom that worked 2nd shift, a Dad who worked 3 jobs and only boys in the neighborhood to play with, I guess I lived in my own little world that the Carpenters played a big role in.
Now granted, I also loved other singers a lot like Helen Reddy, Donna Summer, ONJ, Glen Campbell, Nancy Sinatra and so many more but they were totally a musical interest only for me.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 6, 2008 21:18:04 GMT -5
This is a great topic, Rick. So many things come to mind when you think of this topic. To me, I seem to choose the words "look up to" rather than "idolize" but none-the-less that's the word in the subject line so I'm going with that. Oddly enough, another reason why I looked up to Karen was not just for the music and VOICE, which I was taken to immediately, but going with the "idol" and "fantasize" level, it was my fantasy to think of Karen as my older sister. I had always wanted a sister and never had one so I guess when I was very young, I often thought of how it would be to have a sister like Karen. One who I could do things with, share things with and sing with. Silly, but back then, the Carpenters were pretty much the center of my life with just a bit of reality surrounding it. For most I guess it would be the opposite but having only 2 brothers, a Mom that worked 2nd shift, a Dad who worked 3 jobs and only boys in the neighborhood to play with, I guess I lived in my own little world that the Carpenters played a big role in. Now granted, I also loved other singers a lot like Helen Reddy, Donna Summer, ONJ, Glen Campbell, Nancy Sinatra and so many more but they were totally a musical interest only for me. Very interesting thoughts MA... I somewhat know what you're saying here. Although, I never fantasized about Karen or any other star (I'm not the type to fantasize about things)... I did feel like I had a connection with Karen. Like you Beaner (MA) I loved other musicians at the time (Pink Floyd, Elton John, Donna Summer, Led Zeppelin, Earth Wind & Fire, Beatles, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Eagles, Stevie Wonder, Carly Simon, David Bowie, etc, etc)... but for some reason it was Karen that I felt a connection with... although, I must say I also felt a connection with David Bowie and Pink Floyd... probably more so with the latter two than Karen because I am a male and relate more to the male voice and aggressive sounds. Nontheless as far as female voices go it's Karen's I connected with the most and to a lesser degree Donna Summer. I connected with Karen because she was a tomboy and she played the drums. She wasn't your ordinary everyday pop singer... her voice was unique... she was different and I've always been attracted to things that are different. I can understand MA as a child wanting or needing to fill a void... and we're all different and have had different life experiences. Please, I want all to know that with my comments I am not judging anyone... I am only speaking from my viewpoint and from my experiences throughout my own life... which have shaped the way I think and see things. To Beaner (MA) I have a lot of respect for you... you have put yourself out there and told the truth as to who you are and who you have been. I think that is great... you are a brave person and that is refreshing. I have tons of respect for you. Kudos and bravo to you MA. |
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Post by beaner on Oct 7, 2008 14:13:13 GMT -5
Thanks, Rick! That means quite a lot.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 31, 2008 16:23:46 GMT -5
 Yep, Beaner - you have put yourself out there, and I admire you for doing that, as well.  And, I'm sticking by my guns, too. I don't know that it makes me any less of a good person, to have "idolized" Karen and Richard. They seemed to have realized the dream of a lifetime, and if I ever wanted to do anything passionately, it was to be out in front of a crowd, performing. Always. Just like them.  So why wouldn't I "idolize" them? They were by far my favorite group of the genre. Billy is more Rock N Roll, so I can't put them in the same league. Although I freely admit to having "idolized" him too - he could write (I would so LOVE to be able to write) - he could sing - (well, I CAN sing, but one never appreciates one's voice as much as someone else might) - and he could play/orchestrate, the whole nine yards. Richard Carpenter could do that as well. And, then there was Karen's voice. Ah, that voice. Now, here's where I draw the line in the sand. Did I think they were BETTER than me? NO. That had nothing to do with my "idolizing" them, in my opinion. You have a good point Rick, wj7, et all ... and I completely agree with it - no person is better than the next. "There shall be no false gods before me." So, I didn't make anyone a "false god" in that sense.  So perhaps what I should say, then, is that I idolized the "idea" of what these performers represented. Now, having said that, I've learned a lot since those days. I've done growed up, and I certainly see the flaw in the whole "idolizing" thing. I can see clearly the trials, tribulations, the frustrations, the absolute cry your heart out sadness, the drinking (Billy), the drugs (Richard), the anorexia (Karen) - the control issues (Richard/Agnes), and on and on and on. Nobody is any better or any worse than another, insofar as living their life. Their lives may be different, but not necessarily better.  So, perhaps now I've left a more clear picture. I hope so, at any rate.  |
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