Pigeonhole?

[Rick Henry]

This is a potentially controversial topic... and one I don't think I've seen discussed on this or any other forum.

In a recent discussion (and in several discussions prior) we've mentioned how critics (and the general population) seem to typecast (or pigeonhole) the Carpenters. Though, recently, I was looking over some of our discussions and comments made on the Carpenters and on Karen's voice. I also looked on other forums across the internet. What came to mind is; we all know Carpenters do get typecast by the critics but, are they also being typecast by their very own fans?

What do you think?

[YesterdayOnceMore]

An interesting topic Rick, I'll give this some thought, however, my first blush reaction would be that, as for me - fan that I am - I can only form an opinion by what I know. Your question leads to another: What all DON'T we know about Carpenters in order to form a different opinion?

I'll be back.

[smoothie2]

Good questions by both Rick and Tim...yes, I do believe I must say yes, I do typecast the Carps......and I guess the best way at least for me, would be or would have been to hear music from them that is different....but since that can't be, then I don't know what could be done to get them out of that "mold".

[GoodOldDreams]

A classic example of pigeonholing the Carpenters can be illustrated by the 1972 song "Goodbye to Love." Up to this point of their careers, the Carpenters were already pigeonholed by the music industry and general public as a "soft rock" or "easy listening" group, even though they were certainly capable turning it up, as demonstrated by their earlier recordings of "Help," "Hurting Each Other" and "Another Song." When Richard came up with the groundbreaking concept of a power ballad by introducing a screaming fuzz guitar solo in the middle of a love song, even Tony Peluso himself pigeonholed the Carpenters at first by coming up with what he thought was some appropriately soft and easy riffs to "stay out of the way" for the trademark "Carpenters' sound," until Richard pushed him further to its final rousing form. The public reaction to "Goodbye to Love" was polarized: some fans and critics felt they "sold out" to hard rock or heavy metal, while others felt it was a bold step out of the pigeonhole. There seemed to be a love-it or hate-it reaction, and very little in between.

[YesterdayOnceMore]

goodolddreams said:

A classic example of pigeonholing the Carpenters can be illustrated by the 1972 song "Goodbye to Love." Up to this point of their careers, the Carpenters were already pigeonholed by the music industry and general public as a "soft rock" or "easy listening" group, even though they were certainly capable turning it up, as demonstrated by their earlier recordings of "Help," "Hurting Each Other" and "Another Song." When Richard came up with the groundbreaking concept of a power ballad by introducing a screaming fuzz guitar solo in the middle of a love song, even Tony Peluso himself pigeonholed the Carpenters at first by coming up with what he thought was some appropriately soft and easy riffs to "stay out of the way" for the trademark "Carpenters' sound," until Richard pushed him further to its final rousing form. The public reaction to "Goodbye to Love" was polarized: some fans and critics felt they "sold out" to hard rock or heavy metal, while others felt it was a bold step out of the pigeonhole. There seemed to be a love-it or hate-it reaction, and very little in between.

Boy, couldn't agree with you more , Dreams. And yes, I too have heard Peluso himself say that he couldn't believe Richard was asking him to do a guitar solo in a CARPENTERS tune....much less the fact that Richard later asked for the solo to be a FUZZ GUITAR solo. Pigenholed? Ah, yeah! An excellent example.

[Rick Henry]

goodolddreams said:

A classic example of pigeonholing the Carpenters can be illustrated by the 1972 song "Goodbye to Love." Up to this point of their careers, the Carpenters were already pigeonholed by the music industry and general public as a "soft rock" or "easy listening" group, even though they were certainly capable turning it up, as demonstrated by their earlier recordings of "Help," "Hurting Each Other" and "Another Song." When Richard came up with the groundbreaking concept of a power ballad by introducing a screaming fuzz guitar solo in the middle of a love song, even Tony Peluso himself pigeonholed the Carpenters at first by coming up with what he thought was some appropriately soft and easy riffs to "stay out of the way" for the trademark "Carpenters' sound," until Richard pushed him further to its final rousing form. The public reaction to "Goodbye to Love" was polarized: some fans and critics felt they "sold out" to hard rock or heavy metal, while others felt it was a bold step out of the pigeonhole. There seemed to be a love-it or hate-it reaction, and very little in between.

Winning thought on this... very good Dreams... Oddly enough, this song, which caused a bit of a rife with some Carpenters fans, has now become of Carpenters' most recognized songs and is well loved the world over. I'd say this is easily one of the Carpenters ten best known songs around the world... people from all different musical backgrounds and interests have blogged and discussed this song over and over. This is one of those songs that gets people who generally wouldn't like the Carpenters to like them for at least 3 1/2 minutes.

I think it's pretty funny that some people felt that Carpenters sold out to "hard rock" or "heavy metal" with this song as it's not even close to either genre. The way I view this song is that Carpenters were not selling out to "easy listening"... from the very beginning Richard did not want to be pigeon-holed as just another average middle of the road band... but that's what ended up happening... and even with a good amount of fans who would skip over the truly tasty tidbits such as "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing", "All I Can Do", "Help", "Another Song", "Goodbye To Love", "B'wana She No Home" and others... and write them off as being novelty... when in fact they are some of Carpenters' most daring, complex and innovative musical pieces.