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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 22, 2007 20:58:00 GMT -5
 Tonight Carpenters were featured on VH1's countdown of Top 40 Soft Rock hits. I was expecting them to land somewhere in the top 5 on this countdown. But as it is they ended up at #13 with the song "Superstar". Once again "Superstar" is recognized for it's superiority. The interesting thing about this countdown is that the commentators on this show were putting down most of the artists featured... but when it came to Carpenters there were no put downs. Finally it looks like Carpenters are being recognized for the superior talent they possess. In the program they mentioned that since Karen's death, Carpenters have developed "street cred", which means they are viewed as being credible artists. This is big for Carpenters... gee can the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame be next? I don't hear VH1 or any other rock stations stating that any of the other Soft Rock bands are credible... okay well maybe America and Bread... but it doesn't go much further than that. I will come back tomorrow with the complete dialog of what had to be said about Carpenters and the song "Superstar". |
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makapipi
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Post by makapipi on Oct 22, 2007 22:20:38 GMT -5
Maybe VH1 researched and found that Carpenters still sell 3-5 million cd per year , even though
the group ended in 1983, still popular 24 years later in 2007. Also their christmas songs always
get played everywhere during Christmas. Maybe just more radio airtime and spots in TV shows,
movies and commercials might do it.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 22, 2007 23:02:14 GMT -5
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makapipi
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Post by makapipi on Oct 23, 2007 0:35:29 GMT -5
That's right, Carpenters are out there in cyber space, KC is alive in cyber space. I was watching
"Music Music" on You Tube and learned KC is very talented, she was dancing and singing, I think dancing and remembering all the cues and moves and at same time singing is difficult. Also i read somewhere that song "Solitare" is difficult to sing and not too many would do it.
On "Live at Budokon" concert she sang "Sing" in Japanese and on the song "Help" she was drumming and singing. Also wasn't there a 2007 "Only Yesterday" documentary?
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Post by enigma on Oct 23, 2007 12:09:31 GMT -5
I have seen several VH1 documentaries or lists that feature the Carpenters and all have posative things to say about the Carpenters. One that stands out in my mind is one music person interviewed called their music sophisticated for an adult audience which may explain why the rock and roll people were so against the Carpenters Rock and Roll is more associated with the youth than adult audiences and is generally considered more raw and less sophisticated than some other music forms. I pride myself on being my own person but I always like it when the rest of the world finally realizes what I (we) have known all along about the Carpenters that is how truely great they really were. It took a while to gain objectivity but finally it seems everyone else is waking up and seeing the Carpenters for what they really are timeless great music and sang by on of the the best voices of all time Karen Carpenters. This may have been a banner year for the Carpenters but I thing the best is yet to come.   |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 23, 2007 22:14:25 GMT -5
I have seen several VH1 documentaries or lists that feature the Carpenters and all have posative things to say about the Carpenters. One that stands out in my mind is one music person interviewed called their music sophisticated for an adult audience which may explain why the rock and roll people were so against the Carpenters Rock and Roll is more associated with the youth than adult audiences and is generally considered more raw and less sophisticated than some other music forms. I pride myself on being my own person but I always like it when the rest of the world finally realizes what I (we) have known all along about the Carpenters that is how truely great they really were. It took a while to gain objectivity but finally it seems everyone else is waking up and seeing the Carpenters for what they really are timeless great music and sang by on of the the best voices of all time Karen Carpenters. This may have been a banner year for the Carpenters but I thing the best is yet to come. Hey Enigma... I always love what you have to say on these topics. Yes, Carpenters music is sophisticated and certainly geared more toward an adult audience... not an old fogies audience or an "out of touch" audience... but an audience who's musical tastes have developed... an audience who understands real musicianship and fine vocals. That's the audience that Carpenters attract... and believe me that's a wide audience. Like you Enigma, I consider myself to be my own person. One not dictated by the fads or by what my friends or peers say is cool or uncool. I loved Carpenters when Carpenters weren't "cool" and now that they are I still love them. I consider myself to be an oddball Carpenters fan in that I pretty much do not care for most of the artists that (most) people link as being similar to Carpenters... (which I won't name in order to keep peace here). I've always considered Carpenters to be more along the lines of Manhattan Transfer, James Taylor, Roberta Flack, Carole King... you know more of the sophisticated... and not so much the kitsch... I know most fans on this board do not like it when I make these comments... but really I personally think it's doing Carpenters a disservice when they are labeled alongside the "kitsch" artists instead of the "sophisticated" artists where they rightfully belong. Finally, though I'm not the only one who sees it this way... as I really think the VH1 generation does see Carpenters more along the lines of "sophisticated" instead of "kitch". Enigma... you comment that Carpenters attract an adult audience... I agree but along with their sophistication and intensity... Carpenters have a youthful verve in their music which propels the gentle energy in their music to places that most people don't quite understand... all they know is that they love it. ... And I agree... the best is yet to come. I'm still waiting for the day that Richard Carpenter finally realizes that the song "Desperado" is ripe for release as a single... with promotion such as licensing the song to be used in a movie and buying a prime promotional spot with ITunes... the song will soar to the top. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 23, 2007 23:18:17 GMT -5
Many special things are being said and done adding even more fans for the Carps. I especially enjoy the videos of their live concerts, to actually see them..they surely ran a Class Act...they worked hard for it and true talent shines through I believe every time. And as a result, their music continues to THRIVE and Endure.
Thank goodness the music lives on!
I also think that even though it wasn't totally realistic and they despised the "sweet wholesome" image they portrayed, there really are few artists in today's world who have this image.
It seems just the opposite in some cases....it seems people just cannot get enough murder dramas on the tv, or "dark dramas", and there's still
some great music out there, but to me, it's nothing that compares to R. and K.
...I like a few of the crime dramas on tv and music in todays world , but they (surely telling my age, I know)
are nothing like they used to be.
Times have changed dramatically, the world with its' many wars, and global warming and the whole thing...is scary...
Times though were scary back when the carps. were going up the charts too, and folks enjoyed hearing a more soothing sound,
and they still do. People enjoyed seeing Richard and Karen, they promoted honesty, and true talent.
and so it goes....
I surely miss R. and K. as they were....
I surely miss Karen immensely. What a great beautiful woman.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 24, 2007 1:16:20 GMT -5
People enjoyed seeing Richard and Karen, they promoted honesty, and true talent. Funny you make this comment Smoothie... yes, in the 70's Carpenters did somewhat portray that image of being honest and down to earth people. I guess for the most part they were. But my question in regards to your statement (and I'm not asking you smoothie... this is just a thought to ponder... as you know I am one of those thinker types). My question is, were Karen and Richard Carpenter truly the epitome of "honesty"? Looking back on situations maybe they were more akin to living that "masquerade". Were they truly as wholesome as the A&M executives wanted us to think. Gee, Richard was (and still is) a chain smoker... and who knows what Karen really did with her free time... actually she had no free time... no rest for poor Karen. I mean they were just people... It's sad that they were made out to seem like perfect plastic pollyanna dolls - you know overly optimistic and always cheerful. That was so opposite of who they really were. They were both very intense and overly ambitious people. Both were somewhat dark in personality (especially Karen). Yes, she did possess a sunny sort of disposition... but just on the other side of things she was also very secretive and very mournfully dark. I guess all this intensity is what added to their extreme artistic abilities. Just some thoughts... again bringing the reality of things to light here... |
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 24, 2007 6:56:23 GMT -5
Karen and Richard were a public image enigma. A&M didn't have a clue in how to promote these people. They were obviously young and fresh. So their image was portrayed as "wholesome" by A&M and ... well it was mostly true.
R and K fought some of their image, because it was unrealistic to be totally perfect and to live up to their image portrayal. Impossible to achieve, their image cut both ways. R and K couldn't live up to it and their critics used their image to lambaste them all the more.
Yes, Richard smoked ... and drank. Karen, she was a lot more secretive with what she was actually doing. I think this is natural, a self protection, if you will.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 24, 2007 10:32:36 GMT -5
Karen and Richard were a public image enigma. A&M didn't have a clue in how to promote these people. They were obviously young and fresh. So their image was portrayed as "wholesome" by A&M and ... well it was mostly true. R and K fought some of their image, because it was unrealistic to be totally perfect and to live up to their image portrayal. Impossible to achieve, their image cut both ways. R and K couldn't live up to it and their critics used their image to lambaste them all the more. Yes, Richard smoked ... and drank. Karen, she was a lot more secretive with what she was actually doing. I think this is natural, a self protection, if you will. A&M did create an image which almost superseded their music. You are right WJ7 when critics wrote about Carpenters they almost forgot about the music and talked mainly about how sticky sweet looking they were and somewhere hidden in their reviews they would also mention something like... oh and by the way Karen is actually is great singer... that's one that just couldn't be ignored. I agree (to a point) that Karen's secretive nature was a form of self protection. Though she took it to the extreme... so much that it was a major (and unhealthy) obsession. This was not natural or normal behavior... but than again what in Karen Carpenter's life was normal? Let's face it Karen Carpenter was not that perfect angel that A&M (or her management team) wanted her to be... although in voice she truly is an angel... she's the Voice of an Angel! |
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Post by enigma on Oct 24, 2007 13:46:27 GMT -5
OK lets get some reality in here first off No Karen was not the perfect angel squeaky clean perfect person her image led us to believe she did hold a dark secret her ED but all accounts of people who actually knew Karen point to the fact she did have a good sense of humor she was down to earth and she was quite personable and helpful to others I do not believe this was an act or a symptom of Karen's ED. With the amount of fame Karen achieved the work schedule she had to maintain and the lack of control she had over her own career and personal life this would easily cause problems for anybody I think she did her best to keep grounded and real and succeeded to a great degree of course Karen also allowed herself to be a victim of the pitfalls of being a woman in show business as well as her own personal demons that developed with her fame. So I do believe Karen was a good grounded person and did her best with her situation she did not make all the right choices but she was human and nobody in her situation would make all the right choices we can also say the same of Richard. One story that comes to mind was Richard saying that one time a fan saw him drinking a beer after a concert was appalled and wrote a letter protesting Richards behavior. Of course with Agnes reading the fan mail it got back to Richard and angered him that he could not escape that image and be a normal person he was kind of like so what I drink I smoke I have bad habits I am human and he felt rightfully so that he should not be persecuted for being human and in other interviews both Richard and Karen detested the whole image A&M created for them and the fact they could not be themselves. Yes Richard and Karen were secretive they had their own group surrounding them and zealously guarded any info that left that core group and also resisted letting outsiders in. I think they were protecting themselves from scrutiny like the story I told just above they did not want anything to jeopardize their popularity or the image created for them despite their dislike for that image. I still feel that that protection continues today in some ways I do not understand the need to hide things but also understand that we really don't need to know everything. Yes I feel the image and reality are in contradiction when it comes to The Carpenters just some of my thoughts. |
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makapipi
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Post by makapipi on Oct 24, 2007 23:28:21 GMT -5
Maybe , possibly, the dark personality is what helps Karen go into that special place to interpret
lyrics songs like no one can. I guessing in her spare time she watched Tv and read trade magazines and newspapers to see if any news , shows about Carpenters and to get ideas on what songs to do
next time.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 25, 2007 0:56:13 GMT -5
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 29, 2007 22:32:32 GMT -5
People enjoyed seeing Richard and Karen, they promoted honesty, and true talent. Funny you make this comment Smoothie... yes, in the 70's Carpenters did somewhat portray that image of being honest and down to earth people. I guess for the most part they were. But my question in regards to your statement (and I'm not asking you smoothie... this is just a thought to ponder... as you know I am one of those thinker types). My question is, were Karen and Richard Carpenter truly the epitome of "honesty"? Looking back on situations maybe they were more akin to living that "masquerade". Were they truly as wholesome as the A&M executives wanted us to think. Gee, Richard was (and still is) a chain smoker... and who knows what Karen really did with her free time... actually she had no free time... no rest for poor Karen. I mean they were just people... It's sad that they were made out to seem like perfect plastic pollyanna dolls - you know overly optimistic and always cheerful. That was so opposite of who they really were. They were both very intense and overly ambitious people. Both were somewhat dark in personality (especially Karen). Yes, she did possess a sunny sort of disposition... but just on the other side of things she was also very secretive and very mournfully dark. I guess all this intensity is what added to their extreme artistic abilities. Just some thoughts... again bringing the reality of things to light here...
no one can be perfect. But what is reality is their music which seems just to get more popular through the yrs. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 29, 2007 22:50:22 GMT -5
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