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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 5, 2007 9:15:57 GMT -5
 Here's a little exercise for all... let's put a focus on the albums released from 1970 to 1975. Each day take a listen to one of these albums and come back and share what you discovered and/or rediscovered. Now the challenge is to put your focus on songs that you generally do not listen to and/or haven't listened to for a while. This is an exercise in stretching out of your normal zone of comfort listening. Each day please come back with comments on each of the five albums listed... Close To You 1970 Carpenters 1971 A Song For You 1972 Now And Then 1973 Horizon 1975 |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 5, 2007 9:48:02 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 5, 2007 23:37:03 GMT -5
I'm with you WJ7... this is an exercise which will take a tad bit of time. I will probably give my thoughts on one album every two days. Thus taking about ten days for me to complete my thoughts on this. Tomorrow I will come back with some thoughts on "Close To You" (the album). As stated in the first post I will try and comment on songs I generally do not play - but will also comment on the album as a whole. Generally my favorites on "Close To You" are "Crescent Noon" and "Another Song" - so I won't comment too much on those songs - this will be a good challenge and an exercise to get us listening to some of those songs we don't listen to as often. Which in turn will stimulate some fresh conversation... maybe avenues we haven't discussed yet. I also hope to hear from Enigma, Beaner and Makapipi in this topic... I know that Tim is busy with work but a few words in and out of this topic would be nice. I also know that GoodOldDreams is on an extended vacation - travelling - so we may not hear from him in a while. And please Smoothie, Ming and others chime in with your thoughts on the songs on these five albums... but talk about the songs you generally pass by or don't listen to as often. |
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makapipi
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Posts: 172
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Post by makapipi on Oct 6, 2007 15:19:34 GMT -5
"We've Only Just Begun" live version from the Carpenters Live at the Palladium cd.
This song does not have the layering or effects like the studio version it's just one sound from
each instrument and Karen, except for the chorus of horns at the end. I think this version is great,
because they slowed it down a little and gave it a groove funk. also on that day Karen is "ON".
also this Karen voice is close to what you would hear if you were there on stage. At 2:56 when
she sings "beguuuaaauuunnnnnnn" (7seconds) that part is longer and sound great, and listen to that applause.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 7, 2007 0:06:01 GMT -5
Listening to the album "Close To You" in it's entirety was a wonderful treat. I hadn't listened to this album from beginning to end (without a skipping a song) in quite a long time. What I got from this was a reconfirmation that Carpenters really put a lot of creativity and heart and soul into this album. "Close To You" was (is) an album which excelled above almost anything else that was on the market at the time. Carpenters' star shined bright! Opening with "We've Only Just Begun" is poignant. the song set the mood for the entire album and gave the listener high expectations for what would follow in the next few songs. With "We've Only Just Begun" the world knew the Carpenters were a top notch group. There were other family groups around at the time such as Jackson 5 and the Osmonds. But Carpenters were something different, they were solid musicians... way advanced for their young ages. Osmonds and Jacksons were the teeny bopper generation with their pictures splattered on the cover of Teen Beat and Tiger Beat magazine and others. Carpenters did not grace the covers of these magazines... and rightfully so... Carpenters were not a bubble gum pop group... they were not a teeny bopper group. But for some reason music critics labeled them as so. From the very beginning music critics dismissed their music as trite and lumped them with the likes of the Osmonds, Jackson 5 and even the Partridge Family. When rightfully Carpenters music was every bit as advanced, mature and sophisticated as Elton John, Simon and Garfunkel, James Taylor and Paul McCartney. But sadly they were categorized as "cheese puff" and this stigma remained with them throughout their entire career. Although true musicians recognized the abilities of the Carpenters. The sheer musicanship in "Another Song" and the outstanding vocal play in "Mr. Guder" was enough to prove their musical superiority. "Close To You" was such an outstanding album that it was nominated for the 1970 Album of the Year Grammy Award. This was a big honor. It was Simon and Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water" which received the award. One of my favorite aspects of the album is how the first few songs segue into each other. Creating a flow as each song fits together beautifully. "Love Is Surrender" is a fantastic little number. It begins with the drums. I'm really into percussion (could be because of Karen) and "Love Is Surrender" capitalizes on that percussion with a variety of percussive instruments including drums, triangle and bass guitar. Overall this song has a nice blend of music... it all glides together wonderfully. Ralph Camichael wrote this song originally as a contemporary Christian piece. Carpenters changed a few words and turned it into a pop tune. Ralph Carmichael's songs have been recorded by many including Nat King Cole, Elvis Presley, Ellas Fitzgerald and Stan Kenton. "Maybe It's You"... I will not spend as much time on this song as it is one of my all-time favorites and the theme of this thread is to focus on the songs we usually don't focus on. but, I do want to say this song is the epitome of sheer beauty. The music is soothing beautiful and Karen's vocal performance is spectacular. "Reason To Believe" was the beginning of several country tinged tunes to come ("Top Of The World", "I'm Caught Between Goodbye And I Love You", "Two Sides", "Sweet Sweet Smile" and others). Karen was a natural with a country tune... she sang them so wonderfully. "Reason To Believe" is a nice warm and cozy tune. It would have made a pleasant single. Again the song excels in the percussive work... Carpenters have always been outstanding in the percussion side of their music. "Help"... again I will not focus much on this as this is another song I truly adore and feel is one of the best songs on the album. Though, I do want to comment that Karen really sings this song out with a sense of boldness. "Close To you"... a classic all the way. "Baby It's You"... Another outstanding lead vocal by Karen. In this one her voice is drenched with soul. At the young age of 20 she was singing in rich tones matured and seasoned well beyond her youthful age. Karen was a master lead vocalist and right from the beginning was able to contend with the likes of Barbra Streisand and Aretha Franklin in her own silky tender way. In "Baby It's You" Karen's voice was full bodied and vibrant. I just love the sax solo in the middle of the song. This paved the way for many other great sax solos in other songs they recorded throughout their career. "I'll Never Fall In Love Again"... The stacked vocal effect at the beginning brings this song to a fantastic start. The song is nothing more than pleasant although the vocal arrangement excels and Karen's lead vocal is forward and buzzing with soul. "Crescent Noon"... Another major favorite of mine... so I will use two words to describe my feelings here..."Chillingly beautiful". "Mr. Guder"... another big favorite...I love that vocal trade off. The musical arrangement stands out and is excellent. "I Kept On Loving You"... Generally I skip over the songs with Richard's lead vocals. I've never really been a fan of his voice. Though, I must admit he does a fine job with this song. It's short but sweet and not much more than a pleasant album track but it certainly is a catchy tune. "Another Song"... I said I would put the focus on the songs I generally don't listen to... but seeing this is the closing song on the album and it is a true musical masterpiece I must give it it's proper repsect. First the lyric is outstanding, it paints a picture and tells a short story filled with drama and intensity. Karen's lead vocal is outstanding and dramatic. It's as if she's center stage exposing her heart and soul for all to see. Musically this is one of Carpenters' finest moments. It's complete with a full array of instruments weaving in and out to create a masterpiece musical event - keyboards, drums, harpsichord, bass guitar, guitars all blend together to create a musical journey which only a musically seasoned band can conceive. Carpenters musical vision was on a level with a variety of musicians from Dave Brubeck to Elvis Presley to Frank Sinatra to Stan Kenton and even visionary jazz master Joe Zawinul. What other pop group has been able to produce music this advanced and intricately weaved. Their music is so advanced that even some of their very own fans don't understand the more complex songs such as "Another Song" and dismiss them as being noise. With the album "Close To You" the Carpenters proved they were far more than just your pleasant pretty faced pop group... The Carpenters were (and still are) above and beyond the average and the ordinary. They are unclassifiable... They are one of the best of the best. This my friends is what I got from listening to the album "Close To You" from beginning to end.   |
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 7, 2007 16:21:57 GMT -5
Well, first I will start off on some of my thoughts about this exercise. The premise is to listen to and discover or rediscover songs that one generally doesn't listen to very often. It is intended to pull one out of their comfort zone and have them concentrate on songs that might otherwise be skipped over. In my listening and re-listening to these particular albums I find I don't skip over any songs. I like ALL of the songs presented.
Our focus is to be on albums #'s 2-6 (I will count Offering/Ticket To Ride as album #1) : Close To You (#2), Carpenters (#3), A Song For You (#4), Now and Then (#5), and Horizon (#6).
This post will concentrate on the "Close To You" album. This album was the Carpenters sophomore album, their first album being "Offering". "Close To You" was originally released 19 August, 1970 by A&M Records. The track listing is as follows:
1. We've Only Just Begun (3:04)
2. Love Is Surrender (1:59)
3. Maybe It's You (3:09)
4. Reason To Believe (3:02)
5. Help (3:02)
6. (They Long To Be) Close To You (4:34)
7. Baby It's You (2:50)
8. I'll Never Fall In Love Again (2:56)
9. Crescent Noon (4:09)
10. Mr. Guder (3:17)
11. I Kept On Loving You (2:13)
12. Another Song (4:22)
Some album/song notes and highlights: a) 'We've Only Just Begun', released August 1970 became the 3rd single, the 2nd "gold", and the Carpenters' signature song. The first 2 singles were 'Ticket To Ride' ("Offering" album), which hung on the charts for several months and peaking at #54, and '(They Long To Be) Close To You' (from this album). The song was written by A&M's team of Paul Williams (lyrics) and Roger Nichols (music) for a bank commercial.
b) 'Maybe It's You' was written in 1968 for the group "Spectrum" by John Bettis (lyrics) and Richard Carpenter (music).
c) 'Reason To Believe' was a 1966 Tim Hardin folk classic. Richard thought it to be a 'strong' album cut.
d) '(They Long To Be) Close To You' was released 15 May 1970. This is the song that put the Carpenters name in every household across America. Love them or hate them - you knew who the Carpenters were after 'Close To You' went to the top of the charts. The song was penned by Burt Bacharach (music) and Hal David (lyrics). The Carpenters were invited by Burt Bacharach (after hearing their version of "Ticket To Ride") to play at a benefit performance for the Reiss Davis Clinic on 26 February 1970. They were to play a medley of Bacharach pieces. "Close To You" was among the pieces Richard was to look at, but Richard couldn't work it into the medley. But, Richard was highly encouraged to arrange and record "Close To You" by none other than Herb Alpert, one of the founders of A&M Records. The result: SMASH. Right to the top for the Carpenters, where they would remain for several years.
e) 'Baby It's You' is another song that Richard thought to be a 'strong' album cut.
f) 'Crescent Noon' was written by John Bettis (lyrics) and Richard Carpenter (music).
g) 'Mr. Guder' was written by John Bettis and Richard Carpenter in late 1967 as , of all things, a protest song against their talent supervisor, Vic Guder, in Disneyland.
Karen plays drums on the album cut.
h) 'Another Song' was written by John Bettis and Richard Carpenter.
Since the object of the exercise is to listen to songs that weren't 'hits' or to listen to songs that are not played as often ... and in light of my habits of listening to the whole album when I play it ... I'm kind of at a stand still in which songs to pick.
...end part 1
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 7, 2007 16:25:44 GMT -5
The following words are some of my thoughts while listening to "Close To You". This album was created with the promise of tomorrow in their eyes! The album taken as a whole has a theme/progression to it.
1. "We've Only Just Begun"
* sharing horizons // shared duties of lead vocals on songs // "working together" - sung in unison, R and K together // "we've only just begun to live" - this very first line already has the emotional element injected into it. When Karen sings "live" she introduces a 'vocal fry' by the end of her pronunciation of it ///
* the songs' progression builds: piano-clarinet-KC-touches of vocal fry-unison/harmony singing of KC & RC-drums-string-tambourine-brass-vocal backgrounds//sweet harmonies
* "sharing horizons that are new to us..." this line builds up with more instrumental backing and vocal loudness/directness
* "and when the evening comes..." quieter music now backing K's vocals. This seems to be almost like a 'happy' thought process // easy beat and rhythm
* then KC alone with drums, clarinet, strings "and Yes, we've just begun" '' soft piano
The whole song is like a day in the life of newly weds.
Theme/Progression: Newly weds. Love is all around. Sharing. Together.
*** *** ***
2. "Love Is Surrender"
* drums-piano-KC lead-RC/KC backing vocals-trumpet(s)-syncopation-triangle
* RC lead - KC lead with RC backing and RC/KC backing
* the piece is light, quick paced, a "happy" piece
* KC octave jump ..."you must surrender if you care"
* KC sings in upper and lower registers
* This song leads right into the next song. The segue from "Love Is Surrender" to "Maybe It's You" is smooth, pleasant.
Theme/Progression: Surrender to love if you care. Although still 'upbeat', this is not the all consuming love of the newly weds in "We've Only Just Begun".
*** *** ***
3. "Maybe It's You"
* A simple and beautiful song. The rhythm is slow, unhurried and a bit metered - like the tide flowing in ... or out. The visuals conjured by the lyrics are of the waves, the ocean and the sea. We 'see' a young couple walking along the shore and playing/splashing rocks in the waves. Could this be a metaphor for small disturbances that pop up in relationships? Surely not, but on listening to the whole album and it's themes and progressions I think this might be an indicator that all is not as smooth as it should be or seems. The lyrics "couldn't WE stay or must YOU go" plus talk of never being the kind who can pass up a 'lucky penny' and whether it is 'wise or not' and "you brought the caring I forgot" .. or is it " you brought the caring. I forgot" (?) - all these lines of lyric promote a distance in the relationship. Yet, there is hope "his only thought was love for me". But hope has the counterweight of doubt "only a fool would want to leave the paradise I find' with you. Unfortunately, it is echoed (repeated) "only a fool".
* piano-then KC-clarinet/oboe?-harpsichord-drums-strings-cymbals all come into force
* the cymbals right before "rising on the shore the ocean came' evokes visions of the waves rolling in and crashing
* choral sounding in places - big, open vowel sounds of 'aahhhs' and 'waahhs' are used in the backing vocals
* KC/RC in tight harmony
Theme/Progression: Love...but a love perhaps tempered by doubt
*** *** ***
4. "Reason To Believe"
* country music sound, but with "pop" music drum rhythm
* easy going song with a nice, almost brisk pace
* strings-piano-drum-KC-RC
* simple story, but one of deception ... and self deception. The lyrics "knowin' that you lied, straight-faced, while I cried", "never thinkin' of myself", and "if YOU took the time to change MY mind I'd find a way to leave the past behind ...( knowin' that you lied ...)" , "I'd find a way to believe that it's all true", and "still I'd look to find a reason to believe" all point to a relationship on the rocks. One party is lying to the other, who seems to be desperate to cling onto a dying relationship.
* If I just listen to the music = Beauty, in melody, arrangement and composition.
* If I listen to the lyrics= heartache and sadness.
Theme/Progression: Love lost. Deception. Self-deception.
*** *** ***
5. "Help"
* KC sings boldly and in a higher register
* electric piano-drums-cymbals-a prominent electric bass-RC lead and backing vocals more prominent
* "Aahh" 'lyric' is tight between KC and RC plus wonderful percussive syncopation
harpsichord and drums ... harmonies and brass(?)
* the latter portion of the song is totally instrumental
* prominent aural points include drums, harpsichord, bass guitar, KC's higher register, RC backing vocals and the "Aahh" of KC/RC harmonies
Theme/Progression: A cry for help. Realizing insecurity in self. Not in control, not self assured.
*** *** ***
6. "(They Long To Be) Close To You"
* When listening to this song today I find it to be a pleasant song, but in it's infancy this song sounded radically different from anything playing on the radio airwaves.
* piano-KC / drums-strings / flute
* trumpet (sounding very much in Herb Alpert's style)-harpsichord
* The arrangement sounds quite simple. Each voice is easily discerned from the others.
* the song was not as 'simple' as it sounded. Carpenters (in the studio) needed something like 47 takes to get it "right".
* KC's self echo "just like me" near the end of the song sounds so innocent and pure
Theme/Progression: A new love?? You're attractive ... and like everyone else (seemingly) .... I want to get to know you better.
.... end part 2
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 7, 2007 23:04:39 GMT -5
Hey WJ7... great history on the album "Close To You"... but it would be more interesting (and also the theme of this thread) to hear your own personal thoughts on the songs from this album and your own thoughts on the album as a whole. Such as my personal thoughts on the album on a whole was that it really was an outstanding album from beginning to end. I, like you, really enjoy every track on the album. My thoughts continued to how critics from the get go labeled Carpenters are being "cheesy" or "cream puff"... and I just don't get it... because their music was anything but "cream puff"... it was quite dramatic and musically intense. The other theme of this thread is to focus on the songs you generally don't listen to yourself... or maybe the songs that you may like a bit less and speak of what you heard this time around as you listened to some of these songs. Such as "Help"... I know a lot of fans think this song is lesser than say maybe "We've Only Just Begun"... but as you listen to "Help" this time around... what is it you hear in the music... what are some thoughts/feelings or emotions that surface. Hope this helps in guiding the general thought of what this thread is about. |
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 8, 2007 7:37:51 GMT -5
Hey WJ7... great history on the album "Close To You"... but it would be more interesting (and also the theme of this thread) to hear your own personal thoughts on the songs from this album and your own thoughts on the album as a whole. That is what you are getting. My thoughts, what I wrote as I listened to the album, are interspersed throughout my narrative. My album thoughts are found in the beginning of my post and I had more in the final post (which I didn't post, yet, because I thought you wouldn't like this style of writing) and thoughts are coming in small sections included after each song .. i.e theme/progression. Such as my personal thoughts on the album on a whole was that it really was an outstanding album from beginning to end. I, like you, really enjoy every track on the album. My thoughts continued to how critics from the get go labeled Carpenters are being "cheesy" or "cream puff"... and I just don't get it... because their music was anything but "cream puff"... it was quite dramatic and musically intense. You have covered how the Carpenters were perceived by the critics. All I know is that for such a critically slammed group they sure were popular and sold a lot of albums and had sold out concerts worldwide.The other theme of this thread is to focus on the songs you generally don't listen to yourself... or maybe the songs that you may like a bit less and speak of what you heard this time around as you listened to some of these songs. Such as "Help"... I know a lot of fans think this song is lesser than say maybe "We've Only Just Begun"... but as you listen to "Help" this time around... what is it you hear in the music... what are some thoughts/feelings or emotions that surface. I like ALL the songs and listen to them equally!Hope this helps in guiding the general thought of what this thread is about. |
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Post by beaner on Oct 8, 2007 12:59:37 GMT -5
Hi there, I'm off today and spending it here at home so I'm choosing the album from 1971 - appropriately chosen since this happens to be a Monday and rainy at that; but also because it is the first Carpenters album I had every received as a gift (my first ever to own). "Rainy Days and Mondays" - This song has a little funny memory for me as it was a song my cousin and I would sing together a lot. We were like brother and sister growing up. Anyway, when we would play this song, we could never really hear Richard saying "Talk it" with our poor record player back then so when a year or two went by and our family got a new stereo - Wow, we were delighted when we heard Richard say "Talk it" since that was my cousin, Dave's favorite part ....  . I also like any of their songs with a sax solo in it and of course, this one does too. "Saturday" - I really don't think this one needed to be on any record; doesn't do much for me but I do like the trumpet in the background. "Let Me Be The One" - One of my favorites, I really happen to like the way Karen always pronounces the word "understand" - the "stand" is so nice. One of the best parts is the syncopated slide at the end. "A Place To Hideaway" - Can't say enough about this one. It is my favorite and one of my all-time favorite Carpenters songs. I sing harmony on it and it sounds nice against Karen's voice I think. I relate to what's being said in the song too so that always was close to home. I believe the instrument for the solo part is the oboe but whatever it is I do like that sound very much. "For All We Know" - I have never seen the movie "Lovers and Other Strangers" from which this song goes with; maybe someday. (Oh no, that's on another album - hehehehe). This song I can remember being played constantly on the radio. I'm a big fan of the Carpenters sound with their "waaahs and ohhhhs", etc. and this song that that! "Superstar" - I never really noticed or paid attention to the tambourine in this song before so this time I took a special listen to it. It also reminds me of when they made Karen get out from behind the drums and onto the stage. That was a mixed thing with me. I loved the fact that I could see her better and felt closer to her but I missed watching her play the drums too but I'm glad they kept her drum solos in their concerts. She was terrific! "Druscilla Penny" - Truly not a favorite of mine but I'll be nice. I like the electronic keyboard sound that comes from Richard. It is really neat! Also, more aaahhhs in there and the "no - no - noooohh" at the end. "One Love" - I like the part where they sing "Few are the choices we are given" as well as Karen pronouncing "stands" the way I like again too. For years I would sing "spending one love" and I believe the lyrics are "spent in one love" of course and find that I still sing it the other way now and then; can't break a bad habit. Medley "Knowing When To Leave" - Hard to hear what Karen is singing in the beginning but it gets a little better and every time I try to sing I end up screwing it up too. "Make It Easy On Yourself" - The best part is when Karen sings "so very hard to do....aaaaaoooohhh". "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" - Right in the beginning when they sing "DON'T tell me what it's all about" - I like the emphasis they do on the word "don't". Also noticed Karen's vocals in the background are quite high in this song. "Walk On By" = I like the verse that begins with "Foolish pride" and also when sing "walk on byyyye". "Do You Know The Way To SanJose" - a nice ending song to this medley; what a great blend of their voices. "Sometimes" = Lovely, lovely piece that is short but long enough to get the point across to say how much we need to tell our family and friends how much they mean to us. So, on that note, let me take this opportunity to say thanks to all my forum family and friends and just how much you mean to me. Beaner |
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 8, 2007 15:58:43 GMT -5
These are very good thoughts and background information given by everyone here. I have just listened to "Close To You" in one sitting and, though it took me a short time to get into the focus, by the 3rd song I was hearing new things for every entry. (Remember that unlike most of you, I am not musically trained well, so I probably hear things that aren't really there sometimes.)
"Maybe It's You" seems to have a natural blend from the previous song, "Love Is Surrender." I have generally thought of "Maybe It's You" as a song of the mysterious (perhaps sea) motif, but I was impressed this time by the sequencing of the instruments, especially the strings.
What jumped out at me with "Reason To Believe" (other than the country style) was the drum work, including some sounds that I normally would associate more with general precussion than drums, though I don't see any notation of percussion, so perhaps they were one and the same for this album.
"Help" was another song that made me appreicate the intricacy of the drum work- I would guess that the drums takes just as much work as any other instrument to reach a level of decency, let alone proficiency, let alone mastering, as is the case here. The harpsichord and organ also stood out here.
After hearing several "seldom heard" (relatively) songs, I was impressed with the simplicity of "Close To You." It shows a lot of great musicanship but I wouldn't say this is among the top 30 songs the Carpenters recorded, in my opinion.
What stood out in "Baby It's You" was the blending of the voices, especially when the words "baby it's you" are sung (2 or 3 times.)
The harmonization of voices caught my attention to a grater extreme than ever in "I'll Never Fall In Love again."
"Crescent Noon" (always a favorite) impressed me again with the progression displayed, from the emphasis on vocals and simple piano, to the point (around the mention of "mountain bird or birth") where the strings begin to play a big part. Also impressed anew with the deep vocal range Karen hit.
"Mr. Guder" was another song of great drumming intracacy, and the prominence of the flute never quite had imprressed me so much as this time.
"I Kept On Loving You" seemed very typically a 70's song (not a new thought) but what sounded like clapping (though I suppose it's probably a percussion instrument) hit my ears for the first time.
Finally, "Another Song" really seems to have 2 great parts. Part one (vocal) brought to my mind the rather simple but effective A-B rhyme scheme. Part two, as it built up to the instrumental climax, was reminding me somewhat of Mancini's "Peter Gunn Theme."
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Post by enigma on Oct 8, 2007 19:52:03 GMT -5
well I can give you a review of the album Close To You I get the feeling this was a rushed record to capitalize on the success of the Close To You single that was number one about the same time yet it does not sound rushed. This record is great for me for its sheer diversity you have the standard ballads CTY and WOJB you have a country flavored number in Reason To Believe You have the musically powerful Help, Mr Guder and Another Song and you have the dark moody Crescent Noon so much diversity on one record. The thing that also stands out for me and fuels my suspicions that it may have been a rushed effort is alot of the material is not all that great a musical leap from the Carpenters clubs days. The early sound of the Carpenters was unique and distinct even from their other material in songs like Crescent Noon Another Song Help and even Mr Guder there are great parellels to the early Carpeters sound I feel half this record is where Richard was in 1970 and half was where he was years earlier. However I love the early less refined sounds of the Carpenters and it is alot of what attracts me to this record. This is just my feeling when I listen to Close To You and may or may not be absolute fact. As for the second Part of the exercise I do not skip songs when I listen to Carpenters or any other records I have always felt if I am listening to the albums of artists I am listening to a complete work and experience so I do not alter that by skipping songs I may not like as much and in the case of the Carpenters and Close To You I do not hear anything new in the lesser played or lesser liked songs on this record for me no new discoveries.   |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 8, 2007 20:29:06 GMT -5
I have 6 pages of thoughts on just the "Close To You" album. Unfortunately, my free form writing style is probably not conducive to the progression of this exercise. Therefore, I think I will bow out of this particular topic and just read what others post. I enjoy your free form style of writing. You always have some great comments. Now that I went and reread your posts I see more of your thoughts... there was just so much history on the album that I noticed that more than your own personal thoughts. Sorry if I miscommunicated my thoughts on this... to alienate you from this thread was not my intention. It is interesting WJ7 that you mention how much Carpenters sold regardless of the music critics. Can you imagine how much more they would have sold in their time if the stigma (which was forced upon them) did not exist? Yes, Carpenters sold tons and tons of records… but there were also quite a few people who didn’t buy their records (even though they secretly enjoyed their sound). A lot of people didn’t buy their records because they were uncool and they were made fun of quite a bit by their peers and by critics alike. Of course I was one who never cared about the jabs Carpenters received because I knew better… but the truth of the fact is… it really did happen this way. And sadly it happened right from the very beginning… with the song “Close To You” there was this all out “war” against Carpenters. Musicians loved them and said their music was refreshing and trendsetting… music critics said their music was “cardboard” and “cream puff”. And of course it’s the music critics’ voice that we heard more of because the music critic is in every magazine in the industry. This is just part of what was happening in 1970 with the release of the album "Close To You". The album is historic on the landscape of popular music for several different reasons. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 8, 2007 21:24:40 GMT -5
Mary Ann (Beaner) I really like what you had to say about Carpenters (the 1971 album). I will come back and reference some of what you said when I share my thoughts on this album. These are very good thoughts and background information given by everyone here. I have just listened to "Close To You" in one sitting and, though it took me a short time to get into the focus, by the 3rd song I was hearing new things for every entry. (Remember that unlike most of you, I am not musically trained well, so I probably hear things that aren't really there sometimes.) Hey O.E. you don’t need to be trained in music to hear what you hear. Even those who know music hear different things in the same music. It’s all a sense of perception. "Maybe It's You" seems to have a natural blend from the previous song, "Love Is Surrender." I have generally thought of "Maybe It's You" as a song of the mysterious (perhaps sea) motif, but I was impressed this time by the sequencing of the instruments, especially the strings. I really like what you had to say about “Maybe It’s You”. I have also always associated this song with the sea/ocean and even the music gives that ocean sort of feeling. "Help" was another song that made me appreicate the intricacy of the drum work- I would guess that the drums takes just as much work as any other instrument to reach a level of decency, let alone proficiency, let alone mastering, as is the case here. The harpsichord and organ also stood out here. Certainly drum work takes just as much mastering and talent as any other instrument. I’ve heard many people say they could play drums… but than when sitting behind the drums with a real band… well that’s a different story. There is a lot of precision and timing that goes into playing drums as well as energy. After hearing several "seldom heard" (relatively) songs, I was impressed with the simplicity of "Close To You." It shows a lot of great musicanship but I wouldn't say this is among the top 30 songs the Carpenters recorded, in my opinion. Oddly O.E. as much as I love “Close To you (the song) I have to agree with you. It is a wonderful song… but I also think they have many, many that are much better. But this was their first single and from there they kept building on and improving their sound. I really can respect you for you honesty in stating your opinion on this song. "Crescent Noon" (always a favorite) impressed me again with the progression displayed, from the emphasis on vocals and simple piano, to the point (around the mention of "mountain bird or birth") where the strings begin to play a big part. Also impressed anew with the deep vocal range Karen hit. In Crescent Noon” the lyric is “mountain bird” - this was confirmed, last year, by Richard Carpenter himself. I get the feeling this was a rushed record to capitalize on the success of the Close To You single that was number one about the same time yet it does not sound rushed. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Carpenters did rush through recording this album (as a matter of fact I believe most of their albums were recorded in a relatively short time period). I agree, though, it does not sound rushed. Carpenters did certainly put their hearts and souls into this project… and it shows. This record is great for me for its sheer diversity you have the standard ballads CTY and WOJB you have a country flavored number in Reason To Believe You have the musically powerful Help, Mr Guder and Another Song and you have the dark moody Crescent Noon so much diversity on one record. Enigma you hit the nail on the head with the word “diversity”. right from the start (even with “offering) the Carpenters always displayed a sense of diversity in their music incorporating sounds from country music to jazz to rock to easy listening to big band to pop to marching band to experimental… it was all there. The thing that also stands out for me and fuels my suspicions that it may have been a rushed effort is alot of the material is not all that great a musical leap from the Carpenters clubs days. The early sound of the Carpenters was unique and distinct even from their other material in songs like Crescent Noon Another Song Help and even Mr Guder there are great parellels to the early Carpeters sound I feel half this record is where Richard was in 1970 and half was where he was years earlier. You mention the parallels from their earlier days… and many of the songs on the Close to You” album were written in their earlier days from 1967-68 such as “Crescent Noon” and “another Song”. also “Help” and “Reason To Believe” were songs they used to do in concert before they hit big. Since I am a music historian (much like Richard is) a lot of times, in my listening to an album, I think of what happened and how the public responded to the music when it was first released… and me being who I am I tend to say it the way it is and/or the way it was perceived. So please people if I make any comments that sound crude or may rub you the wrong way I am just trying to recreate the true feeling of what really was in that day. I like giving both sides of the story. If you only have one side you don’t get the full story. |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 12, 2007 16:51:49 GMT -5
Hey all, I'm sorry I haven't even been able to touch this thread...it's a time taker, and one I definitely hope to start soon - I loved reading what you wrote Rick, and YOU TOO, wj7. And O.E., I always enjoy your missives and your take on things. I'll be back. Seems I have some listnin' to do!! Tim  |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 15, 2007 20:46:23 GMT -5
I've tried not to read everybody's thoughts on this subject so far, though I have read some. In listening to Close To You through the headphones, and really trying to take it all in, I found I was pretty blown away again, just like the first time I listened to this as a compilation. I recall that there were some things that were done in this album that I didn't know Carpenters could do, or would do. (that is, the first time I listened to it). Here's the track listing again: 1. We've Only Just Begun (3:04) 2. Love Is Surrender (1:59) 3. Maybe It's You (3:09) 4. Reason To Believe (3:02) 5. Help (3:02) 6. (They Long To Be) Close To You (4:34) 7. Baby It's You (2:50) 8. I'll Never Fall In Love Again (2:56) 9. Crescent Noon (4:09) 10. Mr. Guder (3:17) 11. I Kept On Loving You (2:13) 12. Another Song (4:22) We've Only Just Begun To Live.....white lace and promises - a kiss for luck, and we're on our way.....As I've mentioned before, I've sung those lyrics at HUNDREDS of weddings since it's release. Everyone, including yours truly, fell in love with this song, seemingly, and wanted it played at their wedding. Everyone, that is, who loved the pop/jazz/mellow/tight/harmonious sounds of The Carpenters. I had a girlfriend in high school, and of course, this became "our song" during my senior year. At that time, I was pretty much listening to the Carpenters at home on a full-time basis. I listened to other groups, but not like Carpenters. We've Only Just Begun has always been a favorite. I remember listening to it for the first time, and hearing that wonderful phrase "We've Only Beguuuuuuunnnnnnnn" !! Wow! It doesn't get much better than THAT, in my book. But there is also a part that has driven me crazy at the same time. There is one place (boy, I hope I describe this correctly this time around....another member almost had my head on a platter the last time I tried to describe this)....there is a spot, and it's at 1:48 ON THE ORIGINAL RECORDING. I just listened again to be sure. It's at the end of the phrase "we'll find a place where there's room to grow-owe" - on the word grow-owe, as they sing it, it is suspended IN THE VOCALS, but Richard does NOT (and he told me he didn't like it, and changed it after it's initial release but that yes, I was correct), he does NOT play the suspension on the keyboard - he inverted the chord, used the same notes, just a different voicing a bit higher, and DIDN'T play the suspension that was being sung. I could never figure out why such meticulous musicians would DO this. It always grated on my ear. But...at least, after being able to ask Richard about it, I understood what he was thinking. The song is a beautiful song, and it cemented Carpenter's place in American History. This is the signature song - The first six notes of this song as we know became Karen's doorbell chime. It's what seperated the men from the boys in terms of the players that were out there, and Carpenters got the men vote after We've Only Just Begun. Karen sings this one so beautifully. The vocal harmonies are outstanding in this song. I like the Together....together build Richard did. Thought the trumpets were certainly a nice touch, too. Nice and crisp, and not over done. It starts off simply - it builds nicely, then it ends with the same simplicity as it began with. Such a beautiful song - and to think, it was a bank commercial. LOVE IS SURRENDER.....oh my goodness....what a neat song. (I know, I'm showing my age). Richard's little scale melody on the keyboard/played in thirds, is a cute touch, then comes all this HARMONY. It's a beautiful song - meant to be a Contemporary Christian song but Richard's ability to turn a song into something he wanted to play was evident once again. Again, just a bit of tasteful trumpet licks. Nice. And Karen gets to use her upper register a bit on the last "care." Maybe It's You, maybe it's me....maybe it's just the constant rhythm of the sea.....Sung so beautifully and sweetly. It's definitely a pop sounding song, with the lovely sound of the oboe....and the harmonies, again. Haunting. wj7, you have spoken before about how family members tend to blend so well when singing with each other, and Carpenters were the epitome of showing how that was true. Sometimes it's even difficult, even after all these years, to pick out all the parts. For example, I'm hearing a bass vocal in the OOOO's that I hadn't heard, or at least paid much attention to before. Interesting.... And the strings....not overdone in this song. Less is more. Reason To Believe - love the country sound of this song....not OVERDONE as a country song, and certainly not sung with any sort of old-time accent on the words...it's nicely done, still with a bit of a pop flair, though entirely a country diddy. It's not one of my all time faves, but it does present us with another side of the talented duo from Downey. HELP - I LOVE THIS SONG. I always liked the way the Beatles did this, but I recall when I heard this song with Richard's arrangement, and Karen's voice...well, I used to really turn up the volume on this one - what with the Hammond B3/leslie being used, and the rest of the arrangement, etc. I just think, still, it's such a fun tune, and the vocals have so much crisp rhythm to them, as well as that flourish that only they could pull off so well. Karen's drums were exciting to listen to - and she actually got to do some fill work here. Fun, fun song. Close To You - The signature intro that belonged only to Richard...just brings me back to that evening in the car when I first heard it - and it transports me there every time. It's a pop song with strings playing lyrically in the background - not something one heard much on pop tunes of the time. But, I swear, one didn't even realize that's what was going on with the music, for listening so closely to the vocals....something we hadn't had before was happening with this group. The trumpet solo was very simple, but highly effective.....The piano part is so simply played and written, but all of these little simple things put together make this song really come alive, and of course, as we know, people did sit up and take notice. The waaahhhh's at the end were a stroke of genius. What a great, and clever way to end this, their first hit. It made the song unique to them. Karen begins this next tune with NO reverb on her voice, initially. An interesting thing, to me. Baby it's you - Richard got to use his 7th chords in this song, that's for sure. He has said many times he is a huge fan of the major 7th chord, and this song is filled with them. There's a definite jazz feel to this little number that, coupled with those awesome vocals and harmonies, makes it such a fun listen. I can tell that Karen got much more comfortable with the song I'll Never Fall In Love Again, singing it her own way, by the time the tan album was done, and she sang it on the medley. I don't mean that she was ineffective on this version, but perhaps just a bit more "formal" with the melody, if you get my meaning. Seems like she's not quite as relaxed as she eventually gets with this song. The harmonies on this one are great, as I, too, love that major 7th chord, and again, this one is chocked full of them. Love it, love it, love it!!!! It's fun to hear just the two voices of Karen, and then Rich and Karen dueting. And tonight, listening again through the headphones, I heard something I never have before....on the word Don't when they come in at the end (don't tell me what it's all a bou wout)...they actually have an effect on Karen's voice, on the melody, that is timed perfectly, but in that particular vocal line I hear a repeated "don't, don't don't don't" - the melody is taken over by another track with Karen singing on it. Interesting - I had never picked up on that before. Sort of a reverbed effect. (this can be done on voice simulation machines). It's at 138 for anyone who wants to listen. Then KC gets to take that note way up to the top. It's classic. I'm going to have to stop with that one for tonight, and come back starting with Crescent Noon tomorrow or soon, at least. There's so much on here to comment about - but there is always lots to comment about where Karen and Richard and their music are concerned. More later. Tim |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 15, 2007 21:08:08 GMT -5
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Post by enigma on Oct 16, 2007 7:20:53 GMT -5
I was going to put something on the Carpenters self titled effort but eagerly await Tims interpretations from the Close To You record first you did so well Tim for the first half of the record I have to hear what your thoughts are for the rest of Close To You...
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. I also like any of their songs with a sax solo in it and of course, this one does too.
