Versatility...

[Rick Henry]

Here's a thought to ponder...

Not many acts that fall into the so called "soft rock" or "adult contemporary" field appeal to such a broad and wide range of people as Carpenters do.

Look at some of their famous fans... just to name a few; k.d. lang, Alice Cooper, Madonna, members from post punk group Sonic Youth, Quincy Jones p their fans are from all across the board.

Fans of Carpenters are music lovers who love all types of music including 40's swing, 40's styled balladeers, classic rock (a huge part of Carpenters fans are classic rock fans), jazz, hard rock, country, dance pop and most surprising (but a good sized portion of fans come from this genre) Goth rock.

Gee people are listening to artists like Bauhaus or Frank Sinatra or Van Halen or Doris Day or Siouxsie and The Banshees and then playing Carpenters. Why is this so?

Just what is Carpenters' appeal that such a broad range of different types of music listeners also listen to Carpenters?

[smoothie2]

First off of course, is Karen's voice which was (is) so unique in sound and purity and yes, very versatile and she seemed to very well adapt with her voice to all styles.
Historically, when R. and K. hit the air waves with their hits like Cl. to you
and W. Only J. Begun, their "softer" sound was so different from what was going on in the music world and world events....war, hard rock,
or just such people like Hendrix, Joplin, Cream,etc...all this was the big deal then, many did not see that the C's would "work".
They were "squares" in the minds of many.
And yet, I think maybe their "softer sound " was such a nice relaxing change for back then, that people clicked in for that.

I'm thinking that parents especially liked this type of change, and wanted their kids to like it too.
Richard and Karen and their tremendous vocals and harmony seemed to always be flawless.
Richard and his most incredible ability and orchestration to arrange music
was also a big factor in why they could be so versatile. They had grown up with all types of music and really enjoyed making their music.
So, softer sound or soft rock or whatever it can be described, that was their "signature" sound.
But they understood music trends, and so they hit in on "Goodbye to Love" and oh my many people just could not believe
it when they heard that Peluso guitar playing on that.
Many, figured R. and K. had gone to "hard rock"....well, suddenly,
they attracted folks who enjoyed that harder sound.
and then, I think
at this point, most people were willing to at least listen to them.
Maybe they couldn't admit it, but they were wondering just what would they do next musically.
......then Sw. Sw. Smile, Top of the world, some of their more
"country" hits came out.
All in all, BECAUSE they were so versatile and came out with songs that confused people wanting to "catergorize" their songs...I think that just
put them at a great advantage.
They could comfortably come out with all types of songs.
TELEVISION I think helped them popularity. They were clean cut and always had a smile (most of the time,).
Great guests on their shows like Ella f., J. denver, and Como only further proved that flexibility.
So, those are my longwinded thoughts.

[enigma]

Interesting topic Rick and it seems simple enough for me its Karen Carpenter. I listen to all generas styles and types of music and no singer does for me what Karen does she has no equal as far as a great voice she has no equal as far as sheer chill factor in her voice she is quite unique in just how she connects to her audience. I can only deduce that what keeps fans of other music listening to the Carpenters is what keeps me listening to them and its Karen and her unique way of connecting and doing so with such a naturally flawless voice no one else no matter what music style can do this as well as Karen she is a true master. Interesting comment made by Rick about the Goth rock fans I would think also to a degree it is Karens appearance that attracts Goth fans I know some Goth rock fans they generally dress in black wear black nail polish and dye their hair black in addition to wearing white makeup (they really go all out with the goth look) Karen had dark features dark hair and dark eyes and fairly white skin almost naturally looked kind of goth I found that Goth is not just a music but a lifestyle as well and maybe they are also attracted to Karens look as well this may be a little out there for some of you but I can see where this could be the case,

As far as the artists that like The Carpenters most artists appreciate how difficult it is to make Carpenters record sound like they do and also appreciate Karens incredible voice so no matter what music an artis performs or likes being in the business they can better understand what the Carpenters accomplished and respect what they accomplished.

[Rick Henry]

Great thoughts here from both Kathy and Enigma.

I agree that this versatility in Carpenters fans is mainly because of Karen... well okay maybe all because of Karen.

It was her ability to connect with people in the soul and emotion of her voice. Her voice is crystal clear, tender, bold, soulful... everything is in place in her voice. But beyond that is the way she connects with the heart and soul of people.

I think a primary reason why so many people from the classic rock circle listen to Carpenters is primarily because Carpenters were around during that time period when classic rock was in it's peak (late 70's to early 80's). During that time period many people were playing their Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd albums but then later on when they were alone they'd play Carpenters also. People weren't so vocal about playing Carpenters - but hey back in the 70's almost every household owned at least two or three of their albums.

Of course it's all too obvious why someone who is a fan of 40's and 50's balladeers would love Carpenters - Karen would have been a natural in front of those big bands. Although, Carpenters' music does contain more than strong hints of 70's rock and pop in it (in it's own tender and mellow way) there are also several reminiscences of the 40's and 50's in some of their tunes - making them very attractive to those who enjoy the memories of yester-decades.

Enigma... I believe you hit the nail right on the head in your assessment of the interest in Carpenters in the goth rock field. Yes, it had some to do with her appearance. Eventhough she had thast sunshiny smile... there was also a darkness about her smile. Her overall persona had a rather unusualness about it. she was very attractive - yet at the same point she was quite different in her looks. In her later years she (sadly) became quite gaunt - another aspect which catches the eye of the goth. Beyond Karen's appearance... there's also that deep dark rich voice... that same dark voice which appeals to the listener of Julie Andrews also appeals to the listener of Southern Death Cult - but for all together different reasons.

Enigma in your describing the goth thing you mentioned that this may be a little out there for some of us here - and it may be - but the fact is - our honey voice Angel from Downey crosses beyond generations and genres - that's part of the reason why her voice still sells in the multi-millions.

I, myself, am not a fan of goth music (although I do like some bauhaus and a good amount of Siouxsie and Banshees (not true goth) - though, I find this quite interesting. I feel it all started with todd Haynes' cult film "Superstar: the Karen carpenter Story" in which Karen and Richard are portrayed by Barbie dolls. At first I was completely against this movie - but now I am interested in it - especially after learning more about Todd Haynes and the reason he made this fild. It's just a shame that Richard Carpenter has prohibited it's release - but then again because of it this fild has become one of the biggest selling and most popular underground cult films in cult film history. Karen Carpenter is a extremely popular underground cult film icon - who of us back in the 70's would have ever thought this would come to be?

Here are a few goth appealing photos of Karen...

[Rick Henry]

:-[Here are some interesting articles...

This first one is from a guy (can't find his name) who is into punk rock, no wave (not new wave), goth and classic rock.

The Carpenters cover The Carpenters: The Singles 1969-1973
To be fair, not everything the Carpenters did was depressing, which is the main reason for picking a greatest hits. It’s really their career and the life of Karen Carpenter that are truly a downer. The OGs of goth give us a few great nuggets, but the irony of “We’ve Only Just Begun” makes it more depressing in the context of this optimistic early collection than it could ever be on the gas company’s hold music. And don’t get me started on the glorification of groupie pathos that is “Superstar.”



Here's another one from someone who listens to a lot of goth (and also no wave). This one I saved the link to: www.lmnop.com/Reviews-Jan-97.html#anchor62592

KAREN CARPENTER - Karen Carpenter (CD, A&M, Pop)
When you reach beyond post-mortem to retrieve long overdue music by the late great Karen Carpenter, it seems sad that we should have had to wait. Under the production of Phil Ramone, we now hear what what Karen's solo career (beyond Carpenters fame) would have sounded like. The original decision to shelve these tunes was a mistake. Who could have known that Karen's solo career was one rainy day and Monday away? The premier version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time" appears minus over orchestrated noise. The voice that once riveted will make you wish Karen had done more solo work and focused less on the Carpenters. (Jon Nickell) (Rating: 5)



Here's an interesting article about different artists who have covered "We've Only Just Begun"
www.scrubbles.net/2006/03/26/white-lace-and-promises/



In researching this thing of Carpenters and Goth... I have stumbled upon the realization that the movie Ghostrider has also brought Carpenters to the goth interest again - as this movie was well liked by the goth crowd.



just a few interesting thoughts in the wide range of popularity of this duo (and primarily Karen).

[makapipi]

wow, this goth connection is kind of interesting. It just goes to show how much Karen's voice is
appealing. Also i just realized in some of Richard photos he does not smile and looks intense
and maybe annoyed or irritated, maybe this is also the goth "look".

[Rick Henry]

makapipi said:

wow, this goth connection is kind of interesting. It just goes to show how much Karen's voice is
appealing. Also i just realized in some of Richard photos he does not smile and looks intense
and maybe annoyed or irritated, maybe this is also the goth "look".

Very interesting theory makapipi... although somehow I don't think it's Richard that appeals to the goth sense of nature.

Not only was it Karen's dark looks and dark voice... but she also had this sort of dark nature about herself. She was a mysterious sort of girl.





Off of the goth and now onto classic rock. A huge portion of Carpenters fans (and/or listeners) are also fans of classic rock which is a style of music which was most popular from the late 60's to the early 80's. Classic rock artists include a wide variety of styles such as Doors, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Eagles, Al Stewart, Kansas, Heart, Paul McCartney and Wings, Eric Clapton, Peter Frampton, Styx, Supertramp, Queen, Van Halen, The Who, Genesis, America, Steve Miller Band, Jefferson Airplane (Starship) and yes the Beatles... and many others. Most of these groups were played on the radio along with Carpenters... a lot of times on top 40 radio shows.

Here's an interesting piece I found about "classic rock" stamps in which Karen Carpenter is mentioned in the same paragraph with classic rockers Grace Slick and Keith Moon.

Hi you guys! Just wanted to say you're doing AMAZING with not only the mirror applications but the regular ones, too!

Thanks for sticking around and voting. It's making everything run very smoothly. I release the applications in the morning, and usually the person has enough votes to be stamped by the next morning! That's awesome. Keep it up!

Oh - and thanks for voting for me as Keith Moon, that's AWESOME! I love him, and actually didn't mind being told I looked like a guy, hahaha (that was my initial fear of starting this mirror thing, that people wouldn't want to be told they look like men!) but anyway, I was very happy with that. And I definitely have very Keith Moon eyebrows, although you can't see them in any of my pictures, lol ;] So thanks! And the votes for Karen Carpenter and Grace Slick were awesome too, both beautiful!

And thanks for saying I was too pretty to be Neil Young. LOL!

And sorry to anyone that finds Neil Young attractive. Didn't mean to insult you! *Shudder* Haha, just kidding. We all have our own personal taste!

OH ONE MORE THING!
You can vote for people that aren't on the "list", its ok.
As long as its a classic rock band, go ahead and vote! I'll add the person. Especially with this mirror one, since it's obviously people and not bands, feel free to vote for any artist you feel the person looks like. Don't worry about them not being on the list! :]

Ok, so this note really isn't that "quick". Sorry!

Two new applications below, so let's vote!

A Very Happy Tory
Here's the URL to this discussion: community.livejournal.com/classic_r_stamp/23822.html



Here's an interesting list of somebody's 70's music list which includes almost all classic rock but also has Carpenters in there...

www.vainman.net/rock70.htm



Here's someone's list of top ten songs from the 70's...

By: Chris Martin

* 10. Sister Golden Hair by America
* 9. Wishing You Were Here by Chicago
Take the boat out to the middle of the lake, cut the motor and cue this up on the eight-track.
* 8. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey by Paul & Linda McCartney
Paul once said that he thought 'Band On The Run' proved to him he was a good songwriter. I think he should have been paying attention here.
* 7. Mandy by Barry Manilow
First 45 I ever bought. A timeless classic, just like the singer.
* 6. If by Bread
For me, the definition of a haunting ballad.
* 5. Superstar by Carpenters
Karen, you left us far too soon.
* 4. Nights Are Forever Without You by England Dan & John Ford Coley
One of my great early memories is watching this song performed on the Mike Douglas Show.
* 3. American Pie by Don McLean
The classic, the story of music in my generation.
* 2. Strange Magic by ELO
'Never gonna be the same again, I see the way it's got to end, sweet dream, sweet dream...'
* 1. No Time by The Guess Who
Seasons change and so did I, but this song at #1 never changes.

www.inthe70s.com/generated/toptensongs112.shtml



Here's an interesting list in which Karen is listed in the top ten with primarily all male classic rock artists...

Here's the small part mentioned on Karen:
6. Karen Carpenter

It’s too bad that Karen Carpenter’s name is always going to be associated with the battle with anorexia that killed her rather than for her skills as a singer and drummer. Hell, most people don’t even know that Carpenter got her start behind the kit.

Karen formed The Carpenters with her brother Richard in the mid ’60s. The pair went on to record some of the biggest sugary-sweet pop tunes of the century, including We’ve Only Just Begun, Close to You and Top of the World. Karen started out as the drummer and singer for the tandem, but as they became more successful, the record company wanted her out front instead of hidden by a drum set. Carpenter’s skills on the kit were lauded by everyone from Buddy Rich to the readers of Playboy Magazine, which named her the Best Rock Drummer of 1975. We were robbed of Karen’s drumming and voice when she died in 1983 after a long struggle with anorexia.

Here's the link to the entire article:
www.glidemagazine.com/hiddentrack/?p=765



Will be back with more...

[wisejester7]

You can't forget that Karen and Rich had such a varied and versatile musical exposure since almost birth. They were raised middle class. Their teen years were spent in the 60's.

What I'm trying to convey is that there was a sense of struggle in their young lives (middle class money struggles and pressures; social struggles of the 1960's). While that was going on, R and K were listening and apparently enjoying a vast repertoire of music via Dad's record collection and the radio. The times they were a changin'. Rich's music was taking center stage. He was interested in vocals as well as instrumental endeavors. Somehow, this talented fellow was able to incorporate/assimilate the conflicts with the good.

The struggles are in the music. So is the good.
(Mr. Guder is a fine example of combining trouble with good. The story line is negative - a man who lives only as a corporate cog- BUT the arrangement and performance of said story is very upbeat and inventive. Fresh!) This whole concept came about through being fired from a job. Again - struggle.

People connect with struggle. People connect with 'good'. We all desire things to go smoothly. It doesn't really matter what generation you belong to or what style you lean towards (Goth vs. Doris Day,etc).

[Rick Henry]

wisejester7 said:

You can't forget that Karen and Rich had such a varied and versatile musical exposure since almost birth. They were raised middle class. Their teen years were spent in the 60's.

What I'm trying to convey is that there was a sense of struggle in their young lives (middle class money struggles and pressures; social struggles of the 1960's). While that was going on, R and K were listening and apparently enjoying a vast repertoire of music via Dad's record collection and the radio. The times they were a changin'. Rich's music was taking center stage. He was interested in vocals as well as instrumental endeavors. Somehow, this talented fellow was able to incorporate/assimilate the conflicts with the good.

The struggles are in the music. So is the good.
(Mr. Guder is a fine example of combining trouble with good. The story line is negative - a man who lives only as a corporate cog- BUT the arrangement and performance of said story is very upbeat and inventive. Fresh!) This whole concept came about through being fired from a job. Again - struggle.

People connect with struggle. People connect with 'good'. We all desire things to go smoothly. It doesn't really matter what generation you belong to or what style you lean towards (Goth vs. Doris Day,etc).

Fantastic insight here WJ7... thank you very much for your outlook on this.

I think Carpenters' versatility in their fan base is one of the factors that makes them quite unique and makes them stand out above others who have recorded a similar style of music - yet don't have the same genre and generation crossing fan base.

I will come back with more exploration of Carpenters "classic rock" fan base and then follow with Carpenters' jazz fans, country music fans and 40's/50's balladeer fans and so forth. This thread will cover a wide range of fans.

I started out with Goth, as that seemed the least likely area that Carpenters would have fans from - but alas even there they have a good amount of very strong and dedicated fans.