Were Carpenters a typical MOR band?

[Rick Henry]

This is a thought that often pops into my mind were Carpenters a typical MOR (middle of the road) band?

This topic is a digging into the musical background and diversity of Carpenters as well as the public perception of them.

There were several of what would be termed your typical MOR artists out there (we'll stick with the 70's since that's Carpenters' prime time). Artists such as Captain and Tennille, Anne Murray, Helen Reddy, Bread, England Dan & John Ford Coley and others. By typical this is not a put down but a perception or a description. Carpenters have always been categorized along with these artists, but I've always felt Carpenters were beyond these artists and fit better alongside artists like Elton John, Paul McCartney, America, Linda Ronstadt - and other artists whose music stretched beyond genres and would challenge the listener.

What's your viewpoint on this?

[enigma]

No I would not say they were your typical MOR artist but would not put them along side Elton John, Paul McCartney or Linda Ronstadt They simply did not have enough edge for these artists catagory(s) but maybe they were diverse enough to challenge the listener as artists like the former did. Over all looking at their whole body of work I felt they almost always stuck to the MOR format even when they stretched the boundaries of the musical style they never really left it altogether they stayed within the boundaries of MOR as far as I was concerned. To me that was their greatest sucess and also their greatest stonewall that they chose never to climb over at least Richard didn't choose to do so. I felt Karen went outside the MOR boundary on her solo record but not with the Carpenters.

[Rick Henry]

Some good insight Enigma.

My thoughts on this:

The reason I mentioned artists like McCartney, Elton and Ronstadt (and also adding Stevie Wonder) is not so much for the edginess or even type of the music - but more so for the higher quality of musicianship, variety in styles, depth and experimentation with recording technology, trendsetting values, and longevity of popularity.

Captain And Tennille had their charm in their day, Helen Reddy was super popular throughout most of the 70's - but really song for song Carpenters out shined any of the aforementioned. I always felt it was a bit of a put down to put Carpenters alongside these artists - as Carpenters' music went so much further in almost all values.

That's not to say that I don't like these artists - I own quite a few of Anne Murray's vinyl albums and two CD hits compilations, I have C&T's greatest hits on vinyl and have a few of Helen Reddy's albums also on vinyl including a greatest hits by her on CD.

I feel Karen Carpenter's voice sits more in the ranks of Barbra Streisand, Dusty Springfield and Patsy Cline. The musical arrangements I feel are of the very finest in the 70's - as well done as some of McCartney's arrangements or Stevie Wonder's even Beach Boys - and again not because of style of music or edginess - but for the quality of musicanship and creativity.

On the surface one could say Carpenters' music sounds similar to Helen Reddy, C&T, Anne Murray and other - but upon closer inspection of all components of the music and vocals there is far more depth and creativity going on here. I think that is part of the reason why Carpenters are still as popular as they are.

Again not to put anyone down - but this is looking at history and facts Carpenters still sell something like 3-4 million discs a year. I hardly think C&T or Helen Reddy even come close to that - and there’s a reason for that.

Carpenters for most of the early 70’s were considered trendsetting. I don’t ever recall C&T being labeled in this manner - but Stevie Wonder was, Earth wind and Fire were, Elton John was considered trendsetting.

Just some thoughts in bringing about another view and insight of this music we all love.

Any other viewpoints here?

All viewpoints are welcome.

[YesterdayOnceMore]

Definitely not, in my opinion, a Middle-of-the-road-band, by any stretch of the definition. Even when compared to other artists that were quality artists - and Rick, you mentioned Elton John and Paul McCartney - Carpenters, in my eyes, and mind, held their own. They were not in any different league musically - popularity contests aside, the music I would say could be compared, and side-by-side, I think we could see some pretty interesting comparisons.

Elton did some good songs - and like you said, Helen Reddy, Olivia Newton-John, Captn and Tennille, Bread, Billy Joel, America, Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Seals and Crofts - they all did some way good stuff. There are some of these that I would much more quickly classify as a middle-of-the-road type act/or band. I think Carpenters were only catagorized with these artists, because these were the artists of the day, along with them. It's tough for me to compare a Billy Joel "hit" of the time with a Richard Carpenter "hit." But you know how I feel about both of these artists - both genius in their own rites, but I don't think I can really compare the two. Way too different writing styles. Do I think either of them were just okay? MOR, as you have stated? NO. Helen Reddy - yes, Anne Murray (in my mind) yes, Elton John? NO. Seals and Crofts? Bread did some really pretty stuff, but it didn't come up to the quality of some of these artists.

I think Captn and Tennille could have done a lot more than they did - they are both quite talented. But Darrell and Toni were going for the music of the "times" and they did what they assumed and hoped would "sell" records. Richard and Karen did that too, it's just that they were several notches above C & T.

Just some first-blush thoughts. But no, I'd never classify Carpenters as being middle-of-the-road, almost on any count.
Tim

[wisejester7]

I wouldn't call the Carpenters 'typical' , much less 'MOR'.

Their music was diverse and experimental. The C's heard their own drummer and marched to that beat. They didn't follow anyone else's lead. They were true to their own ideas and musicality.

I think Herb Alpert stayed solidly with them/behind them because of their uniqueness. Both Richard and Karen were extremely talented and musically gifted. Richard's genius at arranging and choosing songs was amazing. Karen's gift of vocal emotional surrender (the highs and the lows) are soul scorching. Her drumming and timing were spot on. This allowed Karen to weave through and float above the instruments using her voice as another fine instrument.

The fact that R and K were family ... that got along exceptionally tight with each other ... plays into the equation. I think family vocal blends are the tops. The C's took this blend and ran with it. Their use of overdubbing and vocal stacking was pure, pure enough to create the "Carpenter's Sound" that is unique and recognized as their own style.

[Rick Henry]

Ahhhh... some very good thoughts here form both Tim and WJ7.

I just wonder what goes through Richard's mind when a critic (or even a fan) compares Carpenters to the likes of an artist like Partridge Family (whom in their own sort of way were fine for the times). I just wonder if this irks him.

I think what it was about Carpenters is that while artists like Captain and Tennille, Anne Murray, Bread, Helen Reddy and so forth were "very good" at what they did, Carpenters were outstanding... they took things to a deeper level. Carpenters were to pop music as what Pink Floyd was to rock music - innovators and leaders.

[smoothie2]

Very good topic Rick. Great insight by all. I just think Karen and Richard truly stand in a whole room to themselves, nothing typical.
I do see all sides to the question and how many wonderful way over the top bands or artists there were in those days.
Their music was and is a shining star among many. Guess my answer is very simplistic but there it is..
To me, it always comes to my mind, how Karen and Richard ...mostly Karen, struck me way back when I first heard her on the radio with Rainy days.
I suppose it's because she gave that song and so many others such a personal touch a natural touch unlike anyone else has.