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Post by wisejester7 on May 16, 2007 7:16:12 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on May 16, 2007 7:26:57 GMT -5
 Very interesting - although, I think not that Captain and Tennille and Carpenters have morphed into each other - not even close. I'm sure it happens often enough where people may think C&T songs are Carpenters - but hardly the other way - I have never heard anybody confuse Carpenters for being C&T. It's quite common though, for some reason, whenever somebody here's a 70's song with a female lead vocal they immediatley think it's Carpenters. A few songs that people have thought were Carpenters are "The Rose" by Bette Midler, "You And Me Against The World" by Helen Reddy, "The Look Of Love" by Dusty Springfield, "I Honestly Love You" by Olivia Newton-John, "Killing Me Softly" by Roberta Flack, "You Needed Me" by Anne Murray, "Torn Between Two Lovers" by Mary MacGregor, "Do That To Me One More Time" by Captain And Tennille and "Blue Bayou" by Linda Ronstadt - these seem to be the most commonly mistaken for being Carpenters. The oddest mistaken Carpenters identity was a friend thinking Todd Rundgren singing "Hello It's Me" was Carpenters. |
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Post by enigma on May 16, 2007 8:41:33 GMT -5
No I do not think that Captain and Tennille and the Carpenters morphed into each other but it has been said they were rivals. This is denied by both camps but I think there was some competition there especially when Captain and Tennille were new comers and perhaps stealing some of the Carpenters thunder. I think both learned from one another especially C&T from the Carpenters I feel their was competitions and friendly rivalry between the two acts kind of like the Beatles and The Rolling Stones did or The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac I think the competition forced the two acts to bring their A game to the recording studio and both benefited from the other (C&T and The Carpenters)   |
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Post by Rick Henry on May 16, 2007 21:09:38 GMT -5
No I do not think that Captain and Tennille and the Carpenters morphed into each other but it has been said they were rivals. This is denied by both camps but I think there was some competition there especially when Captain and Tennille were new comers and perhaps stealing some of the Carpenters thunder. I think both learned from one another especially C&T from the Carpenters I feel their was competitions and friendly rivalry between the two acts kind of like the Beatles and The Rolling Stones did or The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac I think the competition forced the two acts to bring their A game to the recording studio and both benefited from the other (C&T and The Carpenters) |
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Post by smoothie2 on May 16, 2007 23:23:28 GMT -5
  Always loved
Cap. and Toni T....very interesting link Wisejester...I enjoyed reading Toni's thoughts. C& T. put out some great hits and Toni has a very powerful beautiful voice...but nothing close to Karen of course.
The Carps. are really different from C. and T.mainly cuz
well, duh...just because! More hit songs, more unique in their sound.
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It's hard to believe folks may think the C.'s are singing the songs you
mention Rick....for us who grew up mostly in the 70's and recall those songs very well, we would know the difference perhaps a bit more. But "Hello, it's Me"...?..
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Post by Rick Henry on May 17, 2007 7:18:51 GMT -5
Always loved
Cap. and Toni T....very interesting link Wisejester...I enjoyed reading Toni's thoughts. C& T. put out some great hits and Toni has a very powerful beautiful voice...but nothing close to Karen of course.
The Carps. are really different from C. and T.mainly cuz
well, duh...just because! More hit songs, more unique in their sound.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's hard to believe folks may think the C.'s are singing the songs you
mention Rick....for us who grew up mostly in the 70's and recall those songs very well, we would know the difference perhaps a bit more. But "Hello, it's Me"...?.. |
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Post by beaner on May 17, 2007 8:50:40 GMT -5
Not to get too far off the subject but yesterday I was listening to Cher singing "Bang Bang" on the radio and I never noticed before but when she sings the part "My baby shot me down", she sounds a lot like Karen Carpenter. Just thought it was interesting. Give a listen sometime - this was when she was younger too, not now in her concerts, etc.
Beaner
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Post by wisejester7 on May 17, 2007 8:50:55 GMT -5
Living through the 70's, I don't confuse C&T with Carpenters. I understand there probably was some distance from the Carpenters in the early A&M studio days when C&T came on the scene. I think the Carpenters saw 'the writing on the wall' when C&T were brought on board. A&M seemed to market the new act as the 'new' Carpenters in their revitalization efforts.
My favorite part of the blog is that Toni feels highly complimented when she is confused with Karen. Toni knows that Karen's voice is one of a kind superb!
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Post by Rick Henry on May 17, 2007 22:43:51 GMT -5
Living through the 70's, I don't confuse C&T with Carpenters. I understand there probably was some distance from the Carpenters in the early A&M studio days when C&T came on the scene. I think the Carpenters saw 'the writing on the wall' when C&T were brought on board. A&M seemed to market the new act as the 'new' Carpenters in their revitalization efforts. My favorite part of the blog is that Toni feels highly complimented when she is confused with Karen. Toni knows that Karen's voice is one of a kind superb! |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on May 21, 2007 21:08:06 GMT -5
Rick, I totally agree with you.....Enigma, I totally agree with you, too, and Wj7, I completely agree with you, also. I think all three of you made excellent points. (Interesting note about Cher/Karen, Beaner - I'll have to listen for that)... Anyway, I wanted to chime in on this one, because I'm thinking the "rivalry", if there was, indeed, rivalry, was benign, undoubtedly, and a ploy by the record companies to make the public believe there could really be some not-so-nice feelings going back and forth between the two groups. Let's face it, competition IS the name of the game, and it's no different on the music front as it would be on the baseball field. Right? So, why wouldn't there be some competition - albiet friendly, I'd wager. About Toni Tennille sounding like Karen - absolutely NOT - no way. Toni sang higher than Karen, for one thing, and she just had a completely different way of singing. She has a very nice voice, but for as much as I enjoyed listening to she and Darrell, her voice just does not compare to Karen's. I really don't think Toni would compare herself to Karen, either. I think you're right, wj7 - she knows what Karen had was an instrument like no other. I'd venture a guess that when Toni mentioned the Carpenter's and the C&T "morphing" into one another, I wouldn't think she was really saying they sounded alike, or that people thought they were one in the same.....musically - I think more the "morph" might have meant that they were both duos, who were popular in the 70's, and that the "thought" of pop duos that featured a male keyboardist and a female vocalist was what morphed. However, there was one giant difference, as we know, aside from Karen's voice being so beautifully one-of-a-kind.... Karen was also a drummer, par excellance!!!!! Very different from Toni Tennille, who was only a vocalist (as far as I know). Just my thoughts for tonight. Anyway, I wrote to Toni Tennille tonight and thanked her for the lovely things she said about Karen's voice, and I invited her to stop by here and say hello. So, keep your eyes peeled (Rick, especially), cause she may just stop by and check-in. Interesting find, wj7 - very interesting. Thanks again for the link. Tim  |
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Post by Rick Henry on May 21, 2007 22:29:45 GMT -5
Rick, I totally agree with you.....Enigma, I totally agree with you, too, and Wj7, I completely agree with you, also. I think all three of you made excellent points. (Interesting note about Cher/Karen, Beaner - I'll have to listen for that)... Anyway, I wanted to chime in on this one, because I'm thinking the "rivalry", if there was, indeed, rivalry, was benign, undoubtedly, and a ploy by the record companies to make the public believe there could really be some not-so-nice feelings going back and forth between the two groups. Let's face it, competition IS the name of the game, and it's no different on the music front as it would be on the baseball field. Right? So, why wouldn't there be some competition - albiet friendly, I'd wager. About Toni Tennille sounding like Karen - absolutely NOT - no way. Toni sang higher than Karen, for one thing, and she just had a completely different way of singing. She has a very nice voice, but for as much as I enjoyed listening to she and Darrell, her voice just does not compare to Karen's. I really don't think Toni would compare herself to Karen, either. I think you're right, wj7 - she knows what Karen had was an instrument like no other. I'd venture a guess that when Toni mentioned the Carpenter's and the C&T "morphing" into one another, I wouldn't think she was really saying they sounded alike, or that people thought they were one in the same.....musically - I think more the "morph" might have meant that they were both duos, who were popular in the 70's, and that the "thought" of pop duos that featured a male keyboardist and a female vocalist was what morphed. However, there was one giant difference, as we know, aside from Karen's voice being so beautifully one-of-a-kind.... Karen was also a drummer, par excellance!!!!! Very different from Toni Tennille, who was only a vocalist (as far as I know). Just my thoughts for tonight. Anyway, I wrote to Toni Tennille tonight and thanked her for the lovely things she said about Karen's voice, and I invited her to stop by here and say hello. So, keep your eyes peeled (Rick, especially), cause she may just stop by and check-in. Interesting find, wj7 - very interesting. Thanks again for the link. Tim Tim, thank you for saying what I was trying to say here. Also thanks for bringing another side of the coin on this. When I first read saw the morphed comment, I thought to myself - not quite. As Karen Carpenter's voice rates among the greats such as; Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Patsy Cline, Aretha Franklin, Barbra Streisand, Annie Lennox, k.d. lang and others. And Richard's arrangements are far more intense. Though, Tim what you said that the morphing may have meant that they were both duos, who were popular in the 70's, and that the thought of pop duos that featured a male keyboardist and a female vocalist was what morphed. That changed my entire view on Toni's comment. With that I will agree - although I still think it's more for Captain and Tennille - as I don't ever recall anybody confusing Carpenters for being Captain and Tennille. But, on the other hand C&T are often called Carpenters. Regardless, I do like several of C&T's songs. Some of my favorites are " Shop Around", "Come In From The Rain", " Can't Stop Dancin'", "Circles", " Lonely Nights (Angel Face)", "The Way That I Want To Touch You", "Do That To Me One More Time", " You Never Done It Like That" and "Dream". |
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kc1950
CERTIFIED SILVER MEMBER
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Post by kc1950 on Feb 7, 2009 9:42:07 GMT -5
Toni Tennille is an absolute class act. She never would compare her voice to Karen. Toni is an absolute consummate professional entertainer - She is also very gracious and is always "on".
Besides - how many entertainers do you know like Toni? Have played with Both the Beach Boys and Pink Floyd? She is credited on the The Wall album with background vocals - and is also credited on the album "Don't let the sun go down on me" - i think with two other Beach Boys. So, she played with Gilmour and Waters - She tells a funny story on her blog how sweet David Gilmour was to her during the recording and how Gilmour watches her the day before with his kids doing Muskrat Love on a show called "Kids are people too" - LOL - they were recording in LA - LOL
What you have to remember about Toni is that she's very different than most. She was born at least ten years earlier than Karen. And she came from a family of entertainers - and more importantly - she was Southern so very different than the Carpenters - Plus, Daryl Dragon's old man was a musical conductor with LA symphony -
Toni wrote his own songs - I believe she wrote "Do that to me one more time" and 'the way i want to touch you" for her husband. Daryl Dragon is like Linda McCartney - how many great songs have been written about him -
If u get a chance - read her Toni Takes blog - she speaks plain and from the heart - She never felt professional jealously toward the Carpenters - Toni was too mature and worldly to be that way - She only wanted to sing - Her standards album is the bomb
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kc1950
CERTIFIED SILVER MEMBER
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Post by kc1950 on Feb 7, 2009 12:15:24 GMT -5
Toni's take - I believe she is talking about ABC and perhaps Jerry Weintraub? Sherwin Bash>
We ended up sharing the same management team, and the same wonderful recording engineer, Roger Young. I’m not going to name their managers, because I believe they were at least partially responsible for Karen’s struggle with anorexia. I could be wrong about this, but remember what I’ve told you...they don’t call it show BUSINESS for nothing, and it can be tough and mean.
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When Daryl and I knew Karen....and, remember, we were just the most casual of acquaintances.....she was NEVER heavy or CLOSE to fat. She was rather pear-shaped, as a lot of women are. As I am, in fact. She was slender from the waist up, and carried most of her weight, which appeared perfectly normal to me, in her hips. When you are pear-shaped, if you are not careful with what you wear, you can APPPEAR to be a bit heavy, especially on television, which can add about 10 pounds to anyone’s frame.
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I believe Karen’s management team suggested to her that she needed to lose some weight so she would “look better on television.” Arghhh!!!! It makes me so angry just to think of it. Karen took that “suggestion” and ran with it, dropping weight like crazy so she would look thin. We watched her shrink, and it was horrifying. She was never, ever FAT!!!!! She was normal. Not good enough for the idiots who advised her.
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Karen often wore clothes onstage that totally disguised her body. I remember once, when her anorexia was well-entrenched, Daryl and I attended one of the Capenter’s shows in Las Vegas. It was a lovely show, with Karen’s gorgeous, warm voice filling the room. After the show, Daryl and I went backstage to say hello, and as I hugged her, I had to force myself not to let her see the shock that went through me when I realized that all I could feel through her robe was BONES! It was like hugging a skeleton.
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I left that show so angry, and so fearful for Karen’s health and the future of that lovely person and her exquisite voice. I was angry again, and filled with an incredible sorrow when I learned of her death. She was an artist...she was fragile....and this stupid business, with its focus on superficial things, killed her. Even today, when I hear her voice on the radio, I am filled with a sadness....now muted by time...but still there. She was so young. She could have still been sharing that lovely voice with us today.
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Well...sorry I had to vent!!! It is no secret I hate the business side of show biz. But now, let me tell you a FUN story
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 8, 2009 1:05:53 GMT -5
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Post by beaner on Feb 25, 2009 15:23:24 GMT -5
I have always loved the Captain & Tennille and still do but to me, the Carpenters music seems to have more feeling to it by far. You feel it in Karen's voice when she is singing. The C&T were more of a pop fun type of music to me. In fact, I burned some of their own lps to a cd recently and am playing their "Come In From The Rain" album and it's one of my favorites with songs like "Circles" and then the bluezy type songs, if you will, like "Sad Eyes" and "Easy Evil". Daryl had an interesting way of playing the piano/keyboards, etc. as opposed to Richard's fine arrangements on the C's albums. Beaner Always loved
Cap. and Toni T....very interesting link Wisejester...I enjoyed reading Toni's thoughts. C& T. put out some great hits and Toni has a very powerful beautiful voice...but nothing close to Karen of course.
The Carps. are really different from C. and T.mainly cuz
well, duh...just because! More hit songs, more unique in their sound.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's hard to believe folks may think the C.'s are singing the songs you
mention Rick....for us who grew up mostly in the 70's and recall those songs very well, we would know the difference perhaps a bit more. But "Hello, it's Me"...?.. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 26, 2009 1:47:31 GMT -5
I have always loved the Captain & Tennille and still do but to me, the Carpenters music seems to have more feeling to it by far. You feel it in Karen's voice when she is singing. The C&T were more of a pop fun type of music to me. Beaner |
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