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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 28, 2007 11:36:07 GMT -5
 In true Rick style I'm bringing up a discussion which may be a bit controversial.
I've thought about this a bit recently after seeing on another Carpenters web site it was listed that Karen's favorite song was "I Need To Be In Love".
My initial thought to that was, "I don't really think so."
You may wonder why I thought that as it is documented in a few places that Karen's favorite tune was "I Need To Be In Love".
Well, upon closer inspection we only really have Richard's word for it. I suspect that upon her death Karen's favorite song (of all that she recorded) was amongst her solo works. This being the case we know for certain Richard is not going to want to expose that to us. I feel this way in particular in that even up to the night before her passing she was still talking about her solo album (at that point it had been near three years since A&M and Richard decided to have the album shelved).
Karen was still talking about what a great album it was. I also feel that by 1983 she was a much different person than in 1976. I don't think she was wanting to identify with that "Little Girl Blue" image anymore. Which "I Need To Be In Love" was very much a sad and somewhat needy type song. Karen seemed to want to identify with being a sunny upbeat yet deep sort of person. I'm not sure which song from her solo album would have been her favorite upon her passing - I'm thinking maybe "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night" or quite possibly one of the unreleased tunes like "Don't Try To Win Me Back Again". Which ironically "Don't Try To Win Me Back Again" is lyrically the direct opposite of "I Need To Be In Love"... where "I Need To Be In Love" (in my mind) shows a sense of weakness - "Don't Try To Win Me Back Again" shows a sense of strength - in saying I'm moving on...
What are your thoughts on this? Am I completely off the track here? |
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Post by enigma on Mar 28, 2007 12:41:22 GMT -5
Well I have hear Richard and John Bettis state that this song was very personal to Richard John and Karen and I do recall Karen herself saying it was her favorite song. The interview was audio and not printed so I will take Karens word for it. Now this interview was done in the 70s before Karens solo record was even concieved of so she may have changed her mind when the solo record was finished, Rick you are probably correct that Richard may not want to admit Karens favorite recording came off her solo record and I have never heard or read anything about a specific solo song that was Karens favorite, However in Phil Ramones interview regarding to solo record he did state that Karen was proud of the solo record she really loved it. Apparently up until weeks before Karen died she called Phil Ramone and made a statement that went something like this Phil is it OK if I use profanity to which Phil said you are an adult go right ahead the Karen said this is and f'in great record isn't it to which Phil said yes it is and that was one of the last times Phile Ramone spoke to Karen Carpenter, I believe this conversation did take place and the history behind the making of Karen's solo record supports this. My point here is that it is completely plausable that Karen would choose a solo track as her current favorite song Karen chose the songs and obviously would like them all she was apparently at a happy time in her life when she made the record so I am sure she had songs during those sessions she really liked. I have never heard or read about Karen mentioning solo tracks let alone citing them as favorites but I tend to think she would have some of her solo tracks that are among her favorites. sorry for the rambling just some thoughts here.   |
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 28, 2007 13:44:01 GMT -5
Hi Enigma... thanks for the extra added insight. I was unaware of the recorded interview in which Karen does state "I Need To Be In Love" was her favorite. Though, as you mentioned that interview was in the 70's. It was probably around 1976 or 1977.
I just feel that from interviews I've read since and even from interviews I've done myself - I truly feel that upon Karen's death her favorite song was something other than "I Need To Be In Love". I feel this as I think she wanted to get away from being that "needy" little lonely girl to becoming an independent strong young woman.
I also have not read any interviews on what Karen's favorite songs were from her solo album (or at that even "Passage" or "Made In America"). This could be for two reasons.
One could be that Richard is holding back on us - as you may notice most projects which Richard controls (such as documentaries and the TV movie) tend to pass right by the entire solo album. Which I feel is unfair to Karen as this was not just a flash in the pan for her - this was a major event in her life. Though, we are lead to believe it was just a small quick part of her life.
The other reason could be that since the album wasn't released (while Karen was alive) there was no use in commenting on the album or interviewing on it.
Enigma the conversation you mentioned between Karen and Phil, is I believe the friend Karen was speaking to on the phone the night before her passing.
... just shaking things up here a bit... |
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Post by ps11932 on Mar 28, 2007 15:38:19 GMT -5
While I don't have any specific historic information on this, it doesn't seem contradictory that "I Need To Be In Love" could be at once both a favorite (if not the favorite) song, and one that in some regards had been advanced beyond. "I Need" is in my opinion a great song and one that reflected the emotions of the various artists at the time. I see it reflecting not weakness but rather an honest evaluation of the gifts of the individual. True love in any form is, after all, as much about giving and helping as receiving. Now, Karen- as any person, grew and developped in every way over the years. Musically speaking- many of us have come to believe that her later solo work is as strong as anything she did and signals that, had she lived, she would have become a star as respected for her versatility as for her well-earned and honorable prior image. And in terms of her personal growth and experiences, the independence and strength she gained, and would have continued to gain, may have led to other selections, reflecting where she would have been, as favorites. There's room for expression of all the seasons of life and growth. One common characteristic among whatever her favorites were or would have been: they all would be personally expressed and honest and in one way or another would help the hearers.
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 28, 2007 16:07:14 GMT -5
Good points are made by both enigma and O.E. and I agree with both of them. I think that "I Need To Be In Love" was a very important song to Karen ... and indeed her favorite. We just don't know how long to remained her favorite. Maybe until the end of her days. Or, maybe like Rick has suggested, Karen had moved on to a 'new' favorite song.
Karen was far from static in her life. By all indicators she did not like to remain still ... personally or professionally. It is more than likely Karen's opinions changed with her needs, wants, and the times. This is not to say that "I Need ..." fell off of her 'favorite(s)' list.
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Mar 28, 2007 17:34:44 GMT -5
From Karen, Richard and John Bettis' own direct accounts in video and radio clips and the official website and liner notes, "I Need to be in Love" was Karen's favorite song of all the songs they have recorded together and "Merry Christmas Darling" was her favorite Christmas tune. Perhaps as a sign of Karen's loyalty to her brother, it is no mere coincidence that Richard composed and arranged the music for both songs.
John Bettis mentioned that the lyrics for "I Need to be in Love" were really autobiographical for Karen, Richard and himself in terms of where they were in their lives at the time. Karen mentioned that songwriter Albert Hammond (of "99 Miles from L.A." and "It Never Rains in Southern California" fame) came up with the title originally, and John came up with the rest of the lyrics. Quoting the first verse (The hardest thing I've ever done is keep believing there's someone in this crazy world for me / The way that people come and go through temporary lives / My chance could come and I might never know), Karen was struck by how true it was for her to not be able to find true love during those hectic concert-touring days.
It is certainly possible that Karen had a new favorite song (either as a solo or a duo) after that point in their careers. When Richard advised Karen NOT to do disco on her solo album, she simply couldn't resist and made a declaration of independence in her new-found freedom by recording "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind." Interestingly, perhaps as a homage to Karen's affinity for the upbeat feel of disco, Richard released "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" in the milestones-filled compilation "From the Top" in 1991, five years well before the release of Karen's solo album. Co-written by their friend Steve Dorff and also released in the 1991 compilation, "If I had You" was Richard's own favorite from Karen's solo album and surely Karen was proud of the technical and artistic challenges she mastered in recording it.
Just another possible scenario... Because of Karen's strong identification and connections with the lyrical and musical roots of "I Need to be in Love" and her impending signing of divorce papers with husband Tom Burris on the day that she died, this song could have resonated deeply within her and remained her all-time favorite to the end.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 29, 2007 1:31:08 GMT -5
Some very good and insightful thoughts here.
O.E. I like the way you put it in terms of the song or sentiment not necessarily being "needy" but more so an honest evaluation.
Also an interesting scenario from Dreams with the impending signing of divorce papers possibly "I Need to Be In Love" resonated with her. My take on that one is a song more like "Don't Try To Win Me Back Again" resonated with her - as upon their split I recall that she was really quite angry with Tom.
I also think Karen's "favorite song" changed in that she was very progressive in her personal life and her career. Things did not stand still too long for Karen Carpenter, as WJ7 mentioned. I have a feeling that her favorite song changed with each new album released. Though, after her solo album I think she stayed stuck there and I just get this feeling that she listened to it on a regular basis - possibly more than anything else in her life (this of course is only speculation - and a teaser for conversation).
I have a radio interview which I recorded (it's from 1977) and I vaguely recall Karen mentioning one of the songs as being her current favorite Carpenters song. Now, I will have to dig up that cassette and listen again - as she could have said it was her favorite from "Passage" and not of all Carpenters songs. I will come back with that one. |
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 29, 2007 7:14:13 GMT -5
From Karen, Richard and John Bettis' own direct accounts in video and radio clips and the official website and liner notes, "I Need to be in Love" was Karen's favorite song of all the songs they have recorded together and "Merry Christmas Darling" was her favorite Christmas tune. As a sign of Karen's loyalty to her brother, it is no coincidence that Richard composed and arranged the music for both songs. John Bettis mentioned that the lyrics for "I Need to be in Love" were really autobiographical for Karen, Richard and himself in terms of where they were in their lives at the time. Karen mentioned that songwriter Albert Hammond (of "99 Miles from L.A." and "It Never Rains in Southern California" fame) came up with the title originally, and John came up with the rest of the lyrics. Quoting the first verse (The hardest thing I've ever done is keep believing there's someone in this crazy world for me / The way that people come and go through temporary lives / My chance could come and I might never know), Karen was struck by how true its was for her to not be able to find true love in those hectic concert-driven days. It is certainly possible that Karen had a new favorite song (either as a solo or a duo) after that point in their careers. When Richard advised Karen NOT to do disco on her solo album. she simply couldn't resist and made a declaration of independence in her new-found freedom by recording "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind." Interestingly, perhaps as a homage to Karen's affinity for the upbeat feel of disco, Richard released "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" in the milestones-filled compilation "From the Top" in 1991, five years well before the release of Karen's solo album. Co-written by their friend Steve Dorff and also released in the 1991 compilation, "If I had You" was Richard's own favorite from Karen's solo album and surely Karen was proud of the technical and artistic challenges she mastered in recording it. Just another possible scenario... Because of her strong identification and connections with the lyrical and musical roots of "I Need to be in Love" and her impending signing of divorce papers with husband Tom Burris on the day that she died, this song could have resonated deeply within her and remained her all-time favorite to the end. Well thought out and stated, Dreams. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 29, 2007 9:24:39 GMT -5
I guess I'm the odd one out with my question in what may have actually been Karen's favorite song upon her passing. Which is fine, I completely understand everyone's thoughts here - as I believe what each person has had to say carries valid points.
I've just always been one who prods and digs into situations and comes up with a possible other side of the story. It's that inquisitive side of me. |
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Post by ps11932 on Mar 29, 2007 16:19:00 GMT -5
Though the ingenius musical talent of Richard and the superb technical and professional expertise of countless other members all combined to make The Carpenters great, it is generally agreed that Karen was the star of the show. Her gift and passion and skill for communication made her, at the very least, the best of her generation, and natually created in her the drive for further styles of expression; hence, ultimately the solo album. Though perhaps not her noted hallmark to the general populace, those who are blessed to know and love her work recognize it as super...outstanding... (I don't know what word to use.) Just as each of us, if we are growing, takes humble satisfaction from recent achievments more than from great things of the past (not that we forget them or are ungrateful), it would actually be surprising if Karen didn't give most of her latter attention to her recent (and ultimately last) work, while still having nostalgic and "soft spots" for the good old stuff.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 29, 2007 23:57:11 GMT -5
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Post by BethMosior on Apr 1, 2007 20:55:36 GMT -5
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I keep thinking tha song " Whaen you've got what it takes " , might also be another theme for Karen , to not hide anymore, MORE sure of herself 
