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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 4, 2007 15:24:46 GMT -5
IF the Carpenters were just coming on the music scene for the first time in this day and age what kind of reception do you think they would receive?
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 4, 2007 16:17:42 GMT -5
IF the Carpenters were just coming on the music scene for the first time in this day and age what kind of reception do you think they would receive? If Carpenters were brand new on the scene right now, I think they would experience the same sort of reception as they did in 1970. Great music is always great music. Their music was very contemporary and still sounds good in this age. Though, if Carpenters were new today I'm sure their music would be slightly different. I think they'd receive a reception similar to that of Norah Jones.
***sidebar discussion... Norah's new album is now in it's 4th week at #1.  |
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Post by enigma on Mar 4, 2007 16:40:42 GMT -5
Wow Norah Jones interesting analogy I am not sure if Norah or the Carpenters should be complimented by the comparison either way I like the comparison. As for the Carpenters as today's new artist well these are different times we live in and they would have to be marketed differently more visually than in 1970 but it could and would likely work. The music is solid enough and there is the trump card Karens voice no generation could ignore that. The popularity they still enjoy certainly provides evidence that they would be embraced even if they were just starting people still seem to like the type of music the Carpenters made. They would certainly be no more out of place in the music scene than they were in 1970. However I can't help but to think that the Carpenters were the right thing at the right time and would not have the same sucess as they did in the early 1970's though I am certain they would have success to some degree.   |
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Post by smoothie2 on Mar 5, 2007 0:05:26 GMT -5
Wow Norah Jones interesting analogy I am not sure if Norah or the Carpenters should be complimented by the comparison either way I like the comparison. As for the Carpenters as today's new artist well these are different times we live in and they would have to be marketed differently more visually than in 1970 but it could and would likely work. The music is solid enough and there is the trump card Karens voice no generation could ignore that. The popularity they still enjoy certainly provides evidence that they would be embraced even if they were just starting people still seem to like the type of music the Carpenters made. They would certainly be no more out of place in the music scene than they were in 1970. However I can't help but to think that the Carpenters were the right thing at the right time and would not have the same sucess as they did in the early 1970's though I am certain they would have success to some degree. ???Enigma, I think you phrased it very well since that's what I'm thinking along those lines. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 5, 2007 12:28:47 GMT -5
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 6, 2007 8:00:16 GMT -5
enigma mentioned that Karen's voice would still be the clincher for their big 'break'... and that was certainly true for their real start
Norah Jones is an interesting 'against the grain' comparison
There is the brother/sister image to master. Richard especially complained about their 'coupledom' in the PR and the way they were handled. At this (make believe) juncture Donny and Marie Osmond would have been the next biggest bro/sis act since the Astaires. Do you think this sibling male/female thing would be a problem this time around?
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 6, 2007 12:25:29 GMT -5
IF the Carpenters were just coming on the music scene for the first time in this day and age what kind of reception do you think they would receive? wj7, please help me set some ground rules about this topic, here...as I'm full of opinions (and that surprises you for WHAT reason?)......but I'd like to know - are Richard and Karen coming into the scene as single people? Are they young, like they were when they first started? Basically....is everything on the same playing field NOW that it was THEN? This will give me a better understanding of how to respond. Thanks. Tim   |
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 6, 2007 16:07:02 GMT -5
IF the Carpenters were just coming on the music scene for the first time in this day and age what kind of reception do you think they would receive? wj7, please help me set some ground rules about this topic, here...as I'm full of opinions (and that surprises you for WHAT reason?)......but I'd like to know - are Richard and Karen coming into the scene as single people? Are they young, like they were when they first started? Basically....is everything on the same playing field NOW that it was THEN? This will give me a better understanding of how to respond. Thanks. Tim Karen and Richard are young ... 19 and 22. They are totally fresh on the scene. They have done the club dates, weddings, etc and have gotten a little experience performing under their belts. College classes take the back seat to gigs sometimes. It's Yesterday Once More. |
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Post by ps11932 on Mar 6, 2007 16:23:31 GMT -5
I really don't follow the contemporary music scene very closely but even amdist the varying hot styles of today, the excellent art produced by the Carpenters would probably gather a following. I've yet to find anyone of any age whom, when sampling Carpenters music, doesn't admit it's something special (though perhaps some are just being polite.) There will probably always be room for pure, great singers- an example perhaps being Josh (I'm not going to get the last name right- something like Grobin?) who has been in the "top 10" within recent years.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 6, 2007 19:19:13 GMT -5
I really don't follow the contemporary music scene very closely but even amdist the varying hot styles of today, the excellent art produced by the Carpenters would probably gather a following. I've yet to find anyone of any age whom, when sampling Carpenters music, doesn't admit it's something special (though perhaps some are just being polite.) There will probably always be room for pure, great singers- an example perhaps being Josh (I'm not going to get the last name right- something like Grobin?) who has been in the "top 10" within recent years. Definitely certainly by all means there will always be room for the pure great singers such as Karen Carpenter. Josh Groban is also a great artist.
Carpenters' music was unique, trendsetting and very contemporary. Richard has stated that Carpenters are not an easy listening act - he calls Carpenters contemporary pop - another term used these days for pop music that is beyond the easy listening scope is "Adult Alternative" - I may be wrong but I feel if Carpenters were new on the scene today (at ages 19 and 22) they would fall somewhere in this "Adult Alternative" category along with others such as John Mayer, Sarah McLachlan, Alison Krauss, Chris Isaak, Bonnie Raitt, Dido, The Coors and even Joss Stone.
Carpenters' music reached a broader scope than your ordinary pop music or classic standards (I love the "standards"). Their music encompassed jazz progressions (and many times it was avant-garde or even progressive jazz to some degree) in it's drum work and guitar licks. They included many power guitar chord solos in a good amount of their works. There were hot saxophone solos in quite a few of those dark soulful ballads. The vocals were dubbed and layered to the effect of echoing and multi-voiced choruses unlike any other artist. Songs like "All I Can Do", "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing", "Another Song", "Help", "Rainy Days And Mondays", "Superstar", "A Song For You", "Road Ode", "Desperado", "Boat To Sail", "B'wana She No Home", "Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again" add a bit of muscle (or maybe experimentalism) behind their seemingly tender sound.
If Carpenters were starting out fresh today they would certainly garner a large amount of attention. First you just can not ignore a female drummer who sings as well as Karen did - and doing both to perfection at the same time. Of course if they were new today their music would be different than what it was in 1969 - but judging from what they released on "Offering" I can't help but to believe that their debut album today would be just as varied in musical genre (and experimental or trendsetting) as well as ambitious. |
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Post by smoothie2 on Mar 6, 2007 23:44:41 GMT -5
:(good point made wisejester about the question of how a bro./sister duo would work in today's music world.....It might be a little of a problem, but I think their music would surely cover up
any fuss.
Their music would be different in some ways perhaps, but then again maybe not...
J. Groban is an excellent example as far as being such a hit success because he has such a wonderful clear high reaching
voice. He also can sing classical as well as just about anything else because of his voice.
Because there are so many different styles and labels or categories of music only adds to the odds I think that R. and K.
would still be popular.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 7, 2007 10:23:11 GMT -5
I don't think the brother-sister duo would present an issue in this day and time. Today's marketing of musical acts is much more savvy than back in 1970. The media has come a long way since than. Karen and Richard would be presented in a much different light than there were. I don't think the cutsie-pie image would ever exist if they were new today. They would most likely be marketed as The Coors have.
I think the problem would be finding the place where Carpenters' music would fit in. Their music was always broad in it's range of styles and experimentation. In one or two songs they may have a Josh Groban or Sarah Brightman sort of sound. But then right after that they'll end up doing an all out dance-pop tune similar to Hilary Duff or even Christina Aguilar, then follow that up with a smokey jazz tune of the likes of Diana Krall or Sade and then finish up with some British sounding rock with a bit of a Coldplay (or even Beatles) influence.
It's hard to peg Carpenters into one genre or style - and I think that's where the problem would arise - as was in the 70's. Take "We've Only Just Begun". The song was not your conventional love song or ballad as it had a pulse (a verve) behind it which gave it energy (an almost upbeat rhythm to it). Have you ever tried to slow dance to "We've Only Just Begun"? It's just not a slow dance - it's not a "classical" sound - it's not a true ballad at that. It's a contemporary sound - as Richard has stated contemporary pop. |
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Post by wisejester7 on Mar 7, 2007 12:09:43 GMT -5
The diversity of their musical stylings makes it hard to peg them into a single category. They play jazz, country, pop, cutting edge, motown, 40's, babershop harmonies, etc.
This is fantastic musically and for the listener, but a record company might be stand-offish due to not knowing just what to do with these talented kids. A true 2 edged sword!
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Post by enigma on Mar 7, 2007 13:34:54 GMT -5
The diversity of their musical stylings makes it hard to peg them into a single category. They play jazz, country, pop, cutting edge, motown, 40's, babershop harmonies, etc. This is fantastic musically and for the listener, but a record company might be stand-offish due to not knowing just what to do with these talented kids. A true 2 edged sword! This delema of what to do with the Carpenters was also evident in 1969 within A&M but Herb Alperts undying belief in the Carpenters made it happen. An Act like the Caerpenters would need a former artist on a label to make them a sucess. From the record company's perspective the big wigs would not understand the quality of the music or the potential to sell something that is against the grain or that cannot be put into a specific catagory. They would only see the bootom line what makes money and they base that on whats making money at the time that will never change. There are still record companies run by former artists and performers who would understand this and I think that is the key someone who has an unfaultering belief in the Carpenters and is willing to take a chance maybe even fail at first but stick with The Carpenters because they would eventually be sucessful. I do not deny the Carpenters would be sucessful but I still don't see them being as sucessful or having the same impact they did in the early 70's. They would not likely be the most popular artists on the planet like they were for a brief time in the 70's I just don't see that happening as much as it may disappoint me. (but not really). I like the idea of getting attention due to Karens fantastic voice and drumming ability this is not as unusual as it was in 1969 but still relatively rare (a female drummer singer) As for the brother sister thing I would not think there would be any problem with that. I believe the White Stripes had a brother and sister and there are other brother sister acts that I never knew were related until I read about them so it was not a primary focus. The media is still interested in sibling acts from the rivalry standpoint (ie do they really get along?) but the idea of intimacy or them being a couple (among other ridiculous rumours) doesn't seem to come into play there is too much shared info for these rumours ever to stick and they are usually quickly debunked. Just some thoughts |
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Post by ps11932 on Mar 7, 2007 17:29:36 GMT -5
All these thoughts are making educational and interesting reading. If I am digesting these things properly, it sounds like one of the theme ideas is that The Carpenters, because of both their diverse genres, and style, were somewhat "ahead of the game" in their time- and probably would still be today.
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Mar 7, 2007 19:12:10 GMT -5
With the development of internet technology, start-up musical groups and artists nowadays have the option of promoting themselves through streaming and downloadable music files on the web, bypassing the traditional path of signing up with a recording company or label to help with the publicity and distribution. Since one of the major stumbling blocks for the Carpenters was that A&M did not know how to effectively promote them, I think many problems foisted on them such as the overly sweet "goody four-shoes" public image, the "brother-sister" taboo factor, the body image and clothing style issues could perhaps be greatly minimized using this alternative medium if the Carpenters were starting out their music careers at this point in time. The listening public could then truly focus on their music, and not prejudge, generalize and dismiss their music as merely "soft rock." Of course, there are many people who try to market themselves this way through American Idol, YouTube and MP3 websites, but I am confident that the Carpenters' many great works can speak (or sing) for themselves and they would emerge as a major musical force above all the wannabes out there.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 7, 2007 19:39:18 GMT -5
I totally understand what you are saying Enigma. I agree it would take someone in the music industry to have complete faith in the talents of Karen and Richard and really give them that chance to make it big. One thing Karen really had going for herself (besides her phenomenal musical talents) is that she had a very likable personality. Herb Alpert not only fell in love with her voice- but I think Herb just genuinely liked Karen Carpenter and this comradeship is another factor that made him really believe in what he heard.
Looking at this conversation as if Carpenters were a new act today - their songs and musical technology and sound would be very different from what it was in 1969-70. They would be an updated version of the Carpenters recording songs with the newer technology. Their musical influences most likely would not be the Beatles, Burt Bacharach and Beach Boys - but probably more like Coldplay, Dianne Warren and NSync.
I tend to think that putting the same phenomenal talent - the same voice - the same musical genius and the same ambition to experiment with a multitude of genres and sounds - and also the desire to lead the way with their own sound - and not necessarily be lead by what everyone else is doing - I feel Carpenters would make a huge splash. It's just no denying Karen's voice is so beautiful and so natural - she has a one in a million voice - one that just can not be passed by no matter what generation or era. I feel had Carpenters (or just simply Karen Carpenter) had been around 30 years earlier (in the 40's) she would have still been a big success. Question is would Karen have been a drummer in 1939?
just my thoughts and ramblings on the topic... |
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 7, 2007 19:45:13 GMT -5
With the development of internet technology, start-up musical groups and artists nowadays have the option of promoting themselves through streaming and downloadable music files on the web, bypassing the traditional path of signing up with a recording company or label to help with the publicity and distribution. Since one of the major stumbling blocks for the Carpenters was that A&M did not know how to effectively promote them, I think many problems foisted on them such as the overly sweet "goody four-shoes" public image, the "brother-sister" taboo factor, the body image and clothing style issues could perhaps be greatly minimized using this alternative medium if the Carpenters were starting out their music careers at this point in time. The listening public could then truly focus on their music, and not prejudge, generalize and dismiss their music as merely "soft rock." Of course, there are many people who try to market themselves this way through American Idol, YouTube and MP3 websites, but I am confident that the Carpenters' many great works can speak (or sing) for themselves and they would emerge as a major musical force above all the wannabes out there. True, true, true...
I really like what you have to say about "wannabes". There are so many of those out there on the music scene - they're here today and gone tomorrow. In this day and time Carpenters would be known as a major musical force on the scene and be grouped along with artists such as Norah Jones, John Mayer, Josh Groban, Diana Krall and others who produce quality music in this day and time. |
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