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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 6, 2006 23:14:15 GMT -5
 With this last edition of Twisted Logic (#23) I thought quite a bit about Karen's solo album. I am especially fond of this album as it represented Karen for the person she wanted to be and the style of music she preferred to be recording. I have to have a great respect for that as she was truly a gifted musician and had a great ear for good music - and all that transcends on her album.
Anyway I was thinking about the people who worked on her album and the other artists and albums they worked on. Of course we know about the Billy Joel connection as BJ's band members performed and worte and arranged some of the songs on the album. The album was also produced by Phil Ramone - who worked on many of BJ's albums.
But to take it a bit further...
Several of the same names such as Louis Johnson, Ralph MacDonald, Rod Temperton, Greg Phillinganes, Michael Becker, Chuck Beeson, Jim Boyer, Bob James and Steve Gadd show up on several other albums released around the time KC solo was recorded.
Albums by Phoebe Snow and Heatwave were produced by Phil Ramone and included many of the names listed above. But also albums produced by Quincy Jones (such as Michael Jackson and Brothers Johnson) included many of the names and musician in that same list. Looks like Quincy Jones and Phil Ramone worked with many of the same people.
The main players on Karen's album - being Phil Ramone, Bob James and Rod Temperton definitely brought their influence and own musicians to Karen's album. Many of these names are from a funk/jazz background. This is where Karen wanted to be. She wanted it to have a funk flavor with a jazz atmosphere. Karen had a huge part in choosing the songs, the sound and direction of her album. What she did was so ahead of it's time. Look at many of todays popular artists - they rely heavily on funk and R&B sounds - Karen was leaning in that direction with her new sound. Too bad there wasn't more. |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Nov 8, 2006 10:16:28 GMT -5
Interesting comments, Rick. I'm of the opinion Karen wanted to try a myriad of varying styles. This would include the funk you refer to, a true smooth jazz feel, definitely a Bonnie Rait sort of blues, and a sort of pop-rock-disco combination. I think Rod Temperton and Karen could have done many more amazing things together, as was totally evident in her solo album. There just aren't many vocalists who would take the time to do the kind of vocal work Karen did on, say for example, If I Had You....nor do I think there were many vocalists of that time frame who actually COULD have done this type of work. It seems Temperton excelled at writing this type of harmony, as is evidenced by the Heatwave album as well. I was reminded as you know of some of Karen's solo tunes while listening to Heatwave. Also, Greg Phillinganes is an amazing player. In fact, all of the musicians you mentioned who worked with Karen and others during that time were great studio musicians. It takes a special talent to be able to do that sort of studio work - to work with different personality types, or different vocal styles, etc. These fellows were quite flexible, and seemingly they were allowed to "stretch" a bit, structured though it was, there seemed a bit of a stretch allowance to their playing. This would be especially true of Phillinganes and Bob James. Phil Ramone has a true gift - a gift to hear the sound that will be successful. If it hadn't been for the true foresight of Phil Ramone, Billy Joel may have never been "discovered" or "uncovered" would be more like it. Billy was under a very binding, but restrictive contract by the first set of thugs who wanted to control his music, and Phil was basically the catalist to dig Billy out of that very horrible contract, and allow him to "play what he felt" and the result of that playing was "The Stranger" LP. Of course, rights were purchased for others that came before it - Turnstiles, and Streetlife Seranader, Piano Man, etc. But this all happened because of Phil's ability to recognize greatness when he heard it. Out of this particular album of greatness was the first smash hit, "Just The Way You Are". Thank you, Phil Ramone. At this point, it would thrill me to find more great music that Karen recorded once upon a time while working with Phil Ramone, as I'm sure it would be top-drawer, wonderful stuff. Thanks for the topic, Rick. Tim  |
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 8, 2006 11:55:24 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment here. There was quite a bit of work put into the vocal mix on Karen's solo album - more than most put into it. Though, this is what Karen was used to. With Carpenters the vocals were always arranged and mixed to the nth degree - so of course Karen solo was going to do the same thing - but in a different way.
You are right Tim in that others did not take the time or effort to do the intense vocal work as found on KC solo. Other artists such as Helen Reddy, Olivia Newton-John and Anne Murray released albums at that time 1979-1980 - but none of them were even close to the class, diversity and intricacy of KC solo. Linda Ronstadt's releases at that time were a step above the others - but even her albums weren't quite up to the technical level as KC solo was. Now Streisand's "Guilty" in my mind is comparable in style and technical achievement. |
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Post by enigma on Nov 8, 2006 12:03:01 GMT -5
When one looks at the amount of talent involved in this project its really hard to believe that it would not have hit written all over it. The track records of the majority of the personel involved in this record is quite impressive aside from Karen herself. The strange thing I find about this record is it does not really sound like the other projects people like rod temperton and billy joels band did or even what phile did prior to that. I was recently listening to Chicago 12 (hot streets) which would be one of the last albums phil would have produced before Karens and dispite the same producer and a simular production style I still feel Karens record was different, another example would be off the wall which alot of Karens solo people were involved in or even billy joels records at the time, Karens solo record seemed to me to be different mainly because I liked it so much better than all the other projects that Karens solo personel were involved in at the time. I do not know if all the credit goes to Karen or just the fact that all that talent was working together but such a great album of music came out of the combination of all the talents involved in Karens solo record. I have listened to the record several times to say the least and to me its always fresh and great sounding. Still it amazes me that all this talent was assembled on the same record I am not sure if you could duplicate that today and not have it cost a fortune. It seems to me that Karen was very careful and planned this record very well to be a sucess its little wonder she was so excited to play this record for her record company with this talent roster she probably figured it could not go wrong...if only.   |
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Post by wisejester7 on Nov 8, 2006 12:06:18 GMT -5
When one looks at the amount of talent involved in this project its really hard to believe that it would not have hit written all over it. The track records of the majority of the personel involved in this record is quite impressive aside from Karen herself. The strange thing I find about this record is it does not really sound like the other projects people like rod temperton and billy joels band did or even what phile did prior to that. I was recently listening to Chicago 12 (hot streets) which would be one of the last albums phil would have produced before Karens and dispite the same producer and a simular production style I still feel Karens record was different, another example would be off the wall which alot of Karens solo people were involved in or even billy joels records at the time, Karens solo record seemed to me to be different mainly because I liked it so much better than all the other projects that Karens solo personel were involved in at the time. I do not know if all the credit goes to Karen or just the fact that all that talent was working together but such a great album of music came out of the combination of all the talents involved in Karens solo record. I have listened to the record several times to say the least and to me its always fresh and great sounding. Still it amazes me that all this talent was assembled on the same record I am not sure if you could duplicate that today and not have it cost a fortune. It seems to me that Karen was very careful and planned this record very well to be a sucess its little wonder she was so excited to play this record for her record company with this talent roster she probably figured it could not go wrong...if only. If only : ( |
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 8, 2006 12:22:08 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Nov 9, 2006 11:25:38 GMT -5
Just a few further thoughts...
In the comments that there aren't any hit singles on KC solo (which I disagree with - as I've mentioned that I hear at least four possible hits on the album). Anyway regarding this comment...
I don't think that having hit singles neccessarily makes an album a great album. There are many albums which have two or three huge hits on them - but the rest of the album is generally filler or just down right boring. And on the other hand there are albums which have zero hit singles - but are considered some of the great albums of all-time. Look at most of Pink Floyd's releases - take "Wish You Were Here" - this is considered one of the great albums - but no hit singles. You just can't judge an album by the amount of hit singles it has - at that you can't judge an album by the amount of copies it's sold. There's albums out there that have sold four million copies and are just average and yet a totally musically fantastic album will sell only half a million. This happens quite a bit today - as our public today buys music for the look of the artist. This is evident with artists like Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson and others - who are marketed big time for their looks - but when it comes right down to it their music is no more than average. Yet artists like t.a.T.U and Dido who are outstanding don't seel half as much.
just my ramblings... |
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