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Post by ps11932 on Sept 29, 2006 17:39:58 GMT -5
Though the vocals (usually by Karen) will always be the hallmark of The Carpenters, the arrangement of instruments is outstanding, and I've always been intrigued by the placement and timing. I've noticed that quite a few songs have, approximately halfway (or a little further through), a fairly brief stretch where the vocals are held back and the focus in entirely on the instruments. Many songs end with an instrumental rush; in my mind that is a different effect and would have to be considered separately. The songs that have what I call an interlude have their impact enhanced by that period- sometimes it seems like the instrumentation is almost a climax, yet when the vocals return, you see that the message and touch have been strengthened by the change of pace. Sort of like you are enjoying a coconut pie (or whatever your favorite dessert is), and then it's off the table- but here's a chocolate fudge cake to hold you over- and when the coconut pie is returned, you love it more than ever. And of course the great thing about these cakes and pies is, you can eat as much as you want- they only make you stronger.
One of the greatest and the most noted example of this type of interlude is in "Goodbye To Love"- it lasts 26 seconds by my calculation, and is highlighted by great guitar work. My two other favorite examples to date of this interluding occur in "This Masquerade" and "Where Do I Go From Here" (both on "Love Songs", among other places.) Masquerade's instrumental pause (which may be technically disqualified by some because it has humming) lasts about 52 seconds- longer than most, and includes great piano, drum work, strings and flute (and probably more.) Where Do I Go has a 19 second interlude that I love about as much as any Carpenters moment and has great guitar and drumming.
Are there other examples that stand out?
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Sept 29, 2006 19:35:13 GMT -5
O.E., I like your Masquerade interpretation - this is the one "solo" that Richard plays that I can do, as well. I always liked this "instrumental interlude" as you have named it, because this solo is so laid-back - each note is so carefully placed, and it's completely jazz influenced. I don't think I have heard an interpretation of This Masquerade that I like any better than this one. In fact, this is my all time favorite Carpenters tune. Yes, I can think of more. Let's think about Lovelines....there's a wonderful electric keyboard solo just after "make me cry out loud for more...." It's Greg Phillinganes who plays this fabulous solo - and it, too, is HIGHLY jazz influenced....but it's just as you described with the pies - the chocolate cake is super - then Karen comes back in with the coconut creame once again....just tremendous. Another great little solo in Karen's CD is in If I Had You - just a 4 bar sax solo, but it's just right....tempting, and then here comes Karen back, with these multilayered vocals that just blow you away. She's doing contra-melodies, and they are BOTH quite complicated vocally....the vocal acrobatic song. But that 4 bars of sax solo certainly gives us the chance to breathe in order to prepare for what's coming next. A lot of their earlier work contains these "interludes" or various "solo" measures. A Song For You has a GREAT sax solo smack in the middle of it - and it really helps make the song, in my estimation. Good point. These instrumental breaks are important....they help with the flow of the song in its entirety. Tim  |
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Post by Rick Henry on Sept 29, 2006 23:42:58 GMT -5
 What a great topic O.E. - I'll have to come back a few times to share some of the instrumental interludes in the music.
Oner of the first that came to my mind is "A Song For You", Bob Messenger's steamy sax solo is outstanding - same as in "Rainy Days And Mondays". The sax solo really heightens the "chill factor" in both songs.
I also love the sax solo in "If I Had You" - KC's solo contained many exciting vocal textures but the music itself was equally thrilling. Rob Mounsey's sparkling piano solo in "Guess I Just Lost My Head" brings the song an added dimension which lifts this song above the others for the moment.
On "Horizon" Tony Peluso has many great guitar solos. Peluso really was one of the best in his field and genre. I really love his brief guitar solo in "Love Me For What I Am" - he smooth electric licks added a dramatic kick to an already moving song. Tom Morgan's harmonica in the opening of "Desperado" sets the mood for a powerful and heart wrenching modern ballad. And though Peluso does not have a guitar solo in "Desperado" his exhilarating chords of smooth electricity are all over this song - furthering the intimacy of the song.
I will be back for comments on "This Masquerade", "Goofus", "Boat To Sail", "I Just Fall In Love Again", "Road Ode", "Those Good Old Dreams" and others from the albums "Close To You" and "Offering" - which contain some of the Carpenters' most dynamic instrumentation. |
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Sept 30, 2006 1:56:35 GMT -5
Great topic, O.E.! I like your food analogy — a multi-course meal of different flavors, textures and aromas. I think of Karen's singing as a main course and the instrumental interludes as side dishes to tantalize and cleanse the palate between courses. (In an all-instrumental piece such as "Heather," it's all gravy to me.)
"Someday" has a majestic instrumental interlude that is immediately followed by Karen's delicately rendered "... how I need you..." Powerful and wonderful contrast!
In "Close to You," the instrumental interlude could be associated with the lyrics to create a magical image of the angels playing a flourish of horns to announce "the day that you were born..."
In the mood-setting intro and bridge to the third verse of "Superstar," the lush orchestration with the seamless progression of harp, woodwinds and keyboard evokes a beautiful but wistful feeling of love lost. Reminiscent of the instrumental interlude on Frank Sinatra's "It was a Very Good Year," it is even richer in color and texture.
In the instrumental interlude of the torch song "Ordinary Fool," the languid saxophone, keyboard and percussion work simply smolder!
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Post by wisejester7 on Sept 30, 2006 7:53:53 GMT -5
Great topic! Many of the songs that first came to my mind have already been mentioned. In general, I'd have to say that the Carpenters are masters of their craft.
Take a pop song like Mr. Guder, for instance. The triangle and flute are used to create a sense of time and routine. The triangle beats out the seconds as if it were a timeclock. Punch in to work. Punch out. Routine. The flute flows in what sounds to be a free flowing, happy go lucky moment, but in the case of Mr. Guder, it propels the momentum of the work day. Message: all is routine...no bumps, jerks or stops allowed. No one wins...everyone stays the same.
The Carpenters were nothing , if not a team. Karen's heaven sent voice and unmatched ability to bring the most out of lyrics and put songs on an emotional level finds it's best home in the swells and ebbs of the wonderful instrumental arrangements created by Richard.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Sept 30, 2006 8:05:53 GMT -5
Great topic! Many of the songs that first came to my mind have already been mentioned. In general, I'd have to say that the Carpenters are masters of their craft. Take a pop song like Mr. Guder, for instance. The triangle and flute are used to create a sense of time and routine. The triangle beats out the seconds as if it were a timeclock. Punch in to work. Punch out. Routine. The flute flows in what sounds to be a free flowing, happy go lucky moment, but in the case of Mr. Guder, it propels the momentum of the work day. Message: all is routine...no bumps, jerks or stops allowed. No one wins...everyone stays the same. The Carpenters were nothing , if not a team. Karen's heaven sent voice and unmatched ability to bring the most out of lyrics and put songs on an emotional level finds it's best home in the swells and ebbs of the wonderful instrumental arrangements created by Richard. I couldn't agree with you more, here, WJ7. I believe this is one of the REASONS why I enjoy Carpenters so....you've pointed out one subtlety that often goes unnoticed, but is so important in the overall creation of the song. You mentioned Mr. Guder....I'll mention Crystal Lullabye just to make the point a bit further. In Crystal Lullabye, the percussion instrument of "windchimes" is used...you know what I mean, I think, even if I don't exactly have the correct name of the instrument.....and it helps us to think of "crystal" as we know it - that is, the beautiful crispness, light tingling that crystal, when bumped together, makes. Just like the triangle you mentioned beats out the time clock rhythm. A PERFECT analogy, in my opinion. And, throughout each song, I believe this type of attention is paid, so that no stone is left unturned. BUT....and, importantly, these touches are created NOT to stand out in the song, but to just "add" to the overall masterpiece each has been created to be. I love that about this music, because each of these nuances in their subtlety, adds to the overall effect of the song so well, and helps to convey to the listener the "whole package." Great thoughts on this one WJ7. Tim |
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Post by wisejester7 on Sept 30, 2006 12:56:44 GMT -5
Tim said..."BUT....and, importantly, these touches are created NOT to stand out in the song, but to just "add" to the overall masterpiece each has been created to be. I love that about this music, because each of these nuances in their subtlety, adds to the overall effect of the song so well, and helps to convey to the listener the "whole package." "
I agree, Tim. Nothing is contrived or frivolous with the Carpenters. They carefully LAYERED and engineered each musical nuance so the meaning would be clear and addressed.
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Post by enigma on Oct 1, 2006 7:25:48 GMT -5
some instrumental interludes I fell are important and happen to like are the flute solo in And When He Smile such an important link to lead us into the final verse of the song really not a song without it I also think of Only Yesterday and Tony's guitar solo how it brings the song to a powerful climax as we slow it back down to a fading end kind of reminds me of a classic play with acts I and II the climax and the final acts really puts an exclamation mark on this powerhouse of a song. Finally I will end with what I consider the best example of instrumental inerludes and that is the ones in Another Song you start soft with Karens sweet voice you explode with an instrumental interlude leading into the chorus you slow the song down with a quieter flute solo another chous and a thudering instrumental finale. This is my best example of how brilliently placed instrumental interludes can make a song a real journey, an artistic statement. a marriage of Karens voice and drumming and Richards arrangement this song has it all and it brilliant! simply brilliant!   |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 1, 2006 10:58:28 GMT -5
I also think of Only Yesterday and Tony's guitar solo how it brings the song to a powerful climax as we slow it back down to a fading end kind of reminds me of a classic play with acts I and II the climax and the final acts really puts an exclamation mark on this powerhouse of a song. Finally I will end with what I consider the best example of instrumental inerludes and that is the ones in Another Song you start soft with Karens sweet voice you explode with an instrumental interlude leading into the chorus you slow the song down with a quieter flute solo another chous and a thudering instrumental finale. This is my best example of how brilliently placed instrumental interludes can make a song a real journey, an artistic statement. a marriage of Karens voice and drumming and Richards arrangement this song has it all and it brilliant! simply brilliant! Enigma... you hit on two songs which I feel contain some of the Carpenters most powerful instrumental breaks. You perfectly conveyed the importance of Tony Peluso's guitar solo in "Only Yesterday". The song is full of many wonderful musical surprises and is made all the more superior with Peluso's guitar work.
I am also a big fan of the instrumentation throughout "Another Song". The instrumental interludes are placed throughout to give this song a powerfully dramatic effect and the result is successful. This song is almost like a mini rock opera of sorts. I especially love the rocking instrumental solo toward the end. This is one of those early songs which really showcased the fact that Carpenters are far more than just singers of love songs. Carpenters were first and foremost true musicians with an artistic focus.
Another one I love is "Your Wonderful Parade". This is a great song all the way through, but it's Karen's marching drum solo at the end which really brings this song home. I love the way her drums move from one speaker channel to the next giving the effect that the "parade" is marching onward. Karen gives us a fine performance. She was an outstadning drummer with her chops firmly planted in jazz progressions. |
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 2, 2006 16:37:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the references, especially to "Another Song", and the observations thereof. It is such a powerful number that the first couple times I heard it, I couldn't understand or relate to it at all- but it really is rather microcosmic of life itself in some regards.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 4, 2006 20:50:25 GMT -5
I also think of Only Yesterday and Tony's guitar solo how it brings the song to a powerful climax as we slow it back down to a fading end kind of reminds me of a classic play with acts I and II the climax and the final acts really puts an exclamation mark on this powerhouse of a song. Finally I will end with what I consider the best example of instrumental inerludes and that is the ones in Another Song you start soft with Karens sweet voice you explode with an instrumental interlude leading into the chorus you slow the song down with a quieter flute solo another chous and a thudering instrumental finale. This is my best example of how brilliently placed instrumental interludes can make a song a real journey, an artistic statement. a marriage of Karens voice and drumming and Richards arrangement this song has it all and it brilliant! simply brilliant! Enigma... you hit on two songs which I feel contain some of the Carpenters most powerful instrumental breaks. You perfectly conveyed the importance of Tony Peluso's guitar solo in "Only Yesterday". The song is full of many wonderful musical surprises and is made all the more superior with Peluso's guitar work.
I am also a big fan of the instrumentation throughout "Another Song". The instrumental interludes are placed throughout to give this song a powerfully dramatic effect and the result is successful. This song is almost like a mini rock opera of sorts. I especially love the rocking instrumental solo toward the end. This is one of those early songs which really showcased the fact that Carpenters are far more than just singers of love songs. Carpenters were first and foremost true musicians with an artistic focus.
Another one I love is "Your Wonderful Parade". This is a great song all the way through, but it's Karen's marching drum solo at the end which really brings this song home. I love the way her drums move from one speaker channel to the next giving the effect that the "parade" is marching onward. Karen gives us a fine performance. She was an outstadning drummer with her chops firmly planted in jazz progressions. And, I would have to agree with both of you on all of your selections. Enigma, you're so absolutely right about Another Song. After reading your description, I listened to it again! It has always fascinated me how much was going on in this song, but to then put it together with your interpretation of it - well, you're just so right-on! What a masterpiece. And I've said this before, I'm sure you'll remember, that I completely and absolutely agree with you on the fact that it just does NOT get any better than Karen singing and playing drums, and Richard's genius way of arranging a song. All of the main, important ingredients are there, including the icing on the cake! Just outstanding. And Rick, your add with Your Wonderful Parade is incredible, as well. Not only is Your Wonderful Parade musically a teriffic song - the topic conveyed in the lyrics, and especially for that time when it was released, just couldn't have been more appropriate. "Stand in line, try to climb, meet your wife at cocktail time" - it was just so right for those times. And, Karen's drumming in this one is just powerfully good - I think you pegged it by saying she was a "drummer with her chops firmly planted in jazz progressions." Well, amen to that. This is one example - Mr. Guder is another - especially when they do it live, and she goes into a straight-ahead jazz swing feel, then there's Nowday's Clancy Can't Even Sing, even though it's a pop-type tune, it's highly jazz influenced - and there are more and more that are jazz influenced, and Karen plays the drums so well on each and every one of them. She was amazing, truly! Thanks guys. Good stuff I learned (realized) from your posts. Tim |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 5, 2006 0:50:10 GMT -5
Yes, Tim "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing" truly has a slight jazz influence. I especially hear it in Richard's spicy keyboard solo - what a real treat.
The instrumental break in "Road Ode" packs quite a bit of emotion. The flute and other woodwind instruments accent the song whose theme is loneliness and turbulence. Another outstanding deep and dark tune. This, in my mind, is one of Richard's very best musical arrangements. |
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 9, 2006 15:31:22 GMT -5
The "From The Top" collection has just been returned after a couple months on loan, and I am listening to disc 4; in the medley there is an excellent oboe (I think) and drum duet that acts asa bridge between "Knowing When To Leave" and 'Make It Easy On Yourself." It's been in my head all day and I was trying to imitate the sound, much to the chagrine of co-workers.
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