Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Aug 29, 2005 9:11:28 GMT -5
Moe, I couldn't agree with you more. Families, even those with the best of intentions, can sometimes have ties that bind, in not such a good way. Not breaking, but loosening those ties can be and often is a very healthy thing to do. I, too, come from a very close family - heck, 2 of my 3 brothers and our wives sang together for some 25 years - so we saw plenty of each other - too much, I often think. We survived it, but after having broken up some 9 years ago, now, I can really tell the difference in not having everyone in the familyi know my every move. It's not a huge deal, but it's significant enough.
Well said, Moe. Just some ramblings, Tim
"....all my best memories come back clearly to me, some can even make me cry...just like before, it's Yesterday Once More...."
From what I've read, Karen was very upset when she found out that Terry Ellis was getting married - because she had lost her chance with him.
By the time she met Tom Burris she was ready to get married no matter what. Richard said she went about choosing a mate the wrong way. She had a checklist which had to be systematically checked off. The man had to be wealthy in his own right, be a strong, confident man who could take charge.
In my original posting, I was wondering if anyone knew of anyone (apart from the historical record) who could have met some of Karen's criteria and been a good match for her.
She was obviously very needy and because of that would require lots of TLC most of the time. Perhaps the anorexia prevented anyone from being the right guy for Karen.
Post by Rick Henry on Sept 9, 2005 10:45:22 GMT -5
Hi, Rob. Hope that your back is feeling better. The checklist method was flawed from the get-go! Karen needed someone, IMHO, who was willing to buck the system and was not chemically dependent, or had psychological issues. That's why, in my original post, I suggested one of the pocket-protector types at the aerospace plant where Agnes worked. While he certainly wouldn't have been "wealthy" at that time, time does have a habit of stretching out, especially if you live long enough to see it. Karen certainly would have done well with someone like Dennis Tito, or current NASA administrator Dr. Michael Griffin. These are people who aren't afraid to call it the way they see it, and if Karen would've continued on her anorexic path, they would've told her about it in no uncertain terms. Somehow I can't envision Agnes not accepting an engineering type, especially since she worked around them. But then again...
You make some good points Dave. Though I still feel that no matter who may have tried to enter Karen's life before 1979 Agnes ( and A&M execs) most likely would have tried to derail the relationship. That simply was just the dynamics of this family. After 1979 (after dealing with Richard's illness) the family became somewhat less protective.
I agree that the checklist thing was a bad idea. You can not start a real relationship based on a checklist. The checklist leaves one very improtant factor out - spontaneity.
As for telling Karen in no uncertain terms about her anorexia I'm sure Tom had to have said something to her - but obviously she did not want to listen. There is a reason why he returned her to her parents. I'm sorry to say this but she probably did not like it and most likely became very upset and unreasonable whenever he would bring up the subject of her weight. Of course this is all only speculation - as all any of us can do at this point is speculate.
Last Edit: Sept 9, 2005 11:30:22 GMT -5 by Rick Henry
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I think Karen would have never considered an enigineer. She was concerned that someone would only want her for her money. It was a huge concern for her. I also don't think she wanted a Hollywood type; deep down inside I think she was skeptical of those guys. She choose Tom who was a real estate developer with gops of money. He undoubtedly swept her off her feet. Ironically it was her mother who encouraged to go out the night she met Tom. I think her parents must have approved of him or they would have raised caine.
Like I said before, she was ready to get married and that was that. Tom came along and seemed to fit the bill. Richard never approved of their relationship, but probably kept mostly silent about it. He said they had a snowballs' chance in hell of making it as a couple.
Post by Christian on Sept 11, 2005 10:19:04 GMT -5
This is really an interesting topic guys, and it evokes so many feelings for me. The whole issue of Karen and her men shows how she was treated by both her family and her company etc. This poor girl really did not have much saying in her own life at times, and it is uttely sad! If it was not Agnes who called the shots, then it was A&M or Richard. She was empowered by those close to her, and did not have the right to control her own life which is every persons right and only theirs.
The incident with Softly shows how controlled she was, and how people conspired behind her back. And I think Richard and Agnes were just as bad as A&M. I think Terry Ellis and Softly would both be great partners for her, and it shows that they loved Karen, not Miss Karen Carpenter of Carpenters fame. They loved the person, not the star.
When looking at all that went on, it is even more proof that Karens anorexia was about control and nothing else. It was the only thing she could control, her own body. The rest of her life was controlled and manipulated by others.
It is an outrage and a shame how people so close to her used her. I know that this will be controversial, but Agnes and Richard has yet to impress me as people. They were just as bad as the rest! Rich and Agnes called the shots and if Karen knew what was best for her, she did what she was told.
It`s sick that A&M etc. controlled her as much as they did, but what`s really disturbing is how her own family treated her at times, that`s just sad and horrible.
When I wake up in the morning and I see you there, I always whisper a little prayer. I gotta see your sweet sweet smile everyday...
The "EXEC" Was a guy called John Adrian ( His nickname was "Softly" cos he starred in a police crime drama in the UK called Softly Softly Task Force & he was also a male model. He fell big time for Karen but "The Firm" once a gain put the "mockers on it & he was recalled to the UK after a late nite phone call from being Karens PA & told to take a holiday or lose his job. When Karen heard he got married to a girl he met on the "forced" holiday she sent a gift of crystal Glasses.......He never received them & when Karen & he met up later she gently rebuked him for not saying "Ta" & he didnt know what she was talkin about.......so the story goes .....another A &M Incident ?? Honestly its like Peyton Place there. Ken carps1000
I don't think this derivation of John Adrian's nickname "Softly" is correct: "John Adrian" did not star in or play any character in Softly, Softly: Task Force according to IMDb and Wikipedia articles on Softly, Softly: Task Force
Karen should have married someone that would have treated her with respect and showed her that she was loved by other people than her family. Her family cared more for Richard than her and that wasn't right. She wanted to have her mother to love her like she loved Richard, but she didn't and I think that her father loved Karen a little bit more than her mother did. I also think that her friends could have helped her with her eating disorder and frame of mind, but they didn't.