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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 25, 2005 1:24:21 GMT -5
Hi all, if you have viewed the "Induct Carpenters into the RRHOF" petition lately you will notice that several lines have been voided and some have been rejected. The reason for this is that somebody had decided make about twenty posts on the petition as to why Carpenters should not be in the RRHOF and also used profanity in most of the posts and made very lewd comments on Karen in releationship to her struggle with anorexia. I was appalled at this and had these posts voided not because they mentioned why they felt Carpenters shouldn't be in the RRHOF (everyone is entitled to their opinion) but because of the profanity and lewd comments made. I felt it was very wrong.
Because of this I had the petition changed. Now my approval is needed before a post will be made viewable to the public. I had the option to make the petition this way from the beginning but I believed that I could trust people to be mature and responsible when posting on this petition. Unfortunately I was wrong.
After all this I received an email from the person who made these posts. They were upset that I voided their comments and that this was censorship.
My repsonse is:
First off this petition is a public document which is viewed by people of all ages young and old. Profanity is not tolerated on the petition. Secondly in some of the posts very rude comments were made about Karen pertaining to her anorexia. Those comments were completely off-topic. This petition is about Carpenters' music - not Karen's anorexia. And lastly this is a petition for people who want to see Carpenters inducted to the RRHOF. Therefore, if you do not want to see Carpenters in the RRHOF than simply do not sign this petition.
**********
In honesty at first I was very hurt by this person's insensitivity. Everything I do on this forum, on the website and other related Carpenters projects are all done with 100% sincerity. And I am always so trusting of people that those who wish to share in my appreciation for Karen (and Richard) will do just that. It saddens me that others have to be so vile. Anyway I have come around to forgive this person in my heart and not let this hurt me anymore.
I say thank you to those of you who have been good friends here at Carpenters Online. You are all wonderful people and I hope we can continue on to enjoy sharing our thoughts and views on karen, Richard and the rest of the C's gang.
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Post by BethMosior on Aug 25, 2005 2:24:37 GMT -5
Thanx Rick why do people do that, I'm glad you are keeping your eyes opened, just sorry that you had to. your the greatest
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Post by Ming on Aug 25, 2005 3:00:15 GMT -5
Yes, thank you Rick. I also don't understand why some people want to criticise the Carpenters. They shouldn't do this. I don't like rap music, but I never criticise it. I think everyone can choose music they like. It is ridiculous that people criticsie music they don't like. Also, no one should criticise Richard and Karen.
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Post by STEVE1975 on Aug 25, 2005 10:46:14 GMT -5
Thanks Rick! Unfortunately you had to deal with that situation. It makes me sick to my stomach that people could be so cruel. Karen has given me so much pleasure that anything written about her personal problems are not relevant to me. Most people get off on critizing other people and don't bother to take a look at their own pathetic self. You are right, all the members on this site are great. Really cool and respectful. Anyway, thanks for all your hardwork and dedication. I have spent many pleasurable hours going thru this site.
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Post by Rob813 on Aug 25, 2005 17:09:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry you had to read that garbage. I can understand your emotional response to this junk because I would have reacted the same way.
Unfortunately we live in a culture of negativity and cruelty. Anybody who knows anything about anorexia would never in good conscience make derogatory comments about anybody suffering from this dreadful disease.
It's quite simple: If you don't like the Carpenters, then stay away from pro-Carpenter sites because we're not interested in your inane opinions. Blog your vicious bile on some other site and leave us Carpenter lovers alone. We'll do just fine without your opinions!
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Post by JoeDeMello on Aug 25, 2005 21:17:25 GMT -5
Hi folks,
I think you are being selective as to who you want to listen to. I think the Carpenters most definitely do not belong on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They are not rock and roll, PERIOD. I am not using profanity, and I do not agree with you. Please do not censor me.
Rock and roll is a state of mind - raw emotions. The Carpenters were bent on being perfect. They even pre-recorded live music, just so it would sount perfect. They were not spontaneous. Please people, they were very good at what they did, very well-crafted POP. NOT ROCK.
While I think people should not use profanity or confuse anorexia with the real issue, the fact is that the Carpenters are not in the same league as rock musicians. The Carpenters were in a league of their own, POP. Bless you Karen!
Later, JD
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 25, 2005 21:50:23 GMT -5
Hi folks, I think you are being selective as to who you want to listen to. I think the Carpenters most definitely do not belong on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They are not rock and roll, PERIOD. I am not using profanity, and I do not agree with you. Please do not censor me. Rock and roll is a state of mind - raw emotions. The Carpenters were bent on being perfect. They even pre-recorded live music, just so it would sount perfect. They were not spontaneous. Please people, they were very good at what they did, very well-crafted POP. NOT ROCK. While I think people should not use profanity or confuse anorexia with the real issue, the fact is that the Carpenters are not in the same league as rock musicians. The Carpenters were in a league of their own, POP. Bless you Karen! Later, JD Joe, nobody ever said that the Carpenters are rock and roll. But the Carpenters have certainly influenced millions of people, musicians and listeners during the rock and roll era. For their major influence during the rock and roll era they certainly do deserve their place in the RRHOF. Remember not everybody who has been inducted into the RRHOF is rock and roll - there are several who are merely big influences during the rock and roll era. Carpenters are one such group.
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 25, 2005 22:46:08 GMT -5
It's not that the fact that the person who made these posts does not like the Carpenters. But it's more so the fact of how the person said it, the words they used and the very insensitive degrading remarks they have made about people who have battled anorexia.
I just went to look at the petition and now this person has made thirty or more consecutive posts (which I will not approve). I don't understand what this person is trying to prove but it's very immature. It's very sad. I will not be intimidated by this person I will keep the petition up and running for those who wish to put their name on it who support the idea of C's being inducted into the RRHOF.
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Post by smoothie2 on Aug 25, 2005 22:58:48 GMT -5
???Rick, I'm sorry you had to deal w/ someone like that...you have always kept this an interesting and fun, and informative site. And you have especially during the past yr., made it very clear about rules about decentcy. There's NO excuse for someone to try to mess that up. ... Joe, I think your comments are well stated. Many will not agree with you and vice versa. Mostly, those who really do not like the C's, then chances are they won't bother to even check into the site here. But, we welcome folks who can express their feelings ...good or bad...as long as they go by rules set out. We welcome those who want to learn more about Karen and Richard, perhaps they might find out they really like them. The C's surely were not perfect...not by a long shot...but they put out great music...we like'em warts and all.... my headachey thoughts... smoothie
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Post by cam83 on Aug 26, 2005 0:28:39 GMT -5
I will add my 2 cents here...The Carpenters, for a majority of their TV SPECIALS, where Karen looked like she was singing LIVE for the most part was lip Synching...but she was so good at it, because I am sure in her head, she knew how to sing perfectly along to what she recorded, the day before, or months before...that was a gift she had...but when she did sing LIVE and in every concert, she did sing LIVE, she sang it so wonderfully, but a true Carpenters fan would know, because she might add that something special into her performance. But the one remarkeable thing, is that when she sang LIVE she also simultaneously drummed LIVE as well...no small feat. And you have to listen to songs like ROAD ODE and GOODBYE TO LOVE, and ANOTHER SONG, and you hear a harder edge to their sound. They were fans of all types of music and it shows in their music....they were not JUST pop, but soft rock, and easy listening, and broadway type tunes, and big band songs, and standards, and country style, and bluesy styles and choral sounds...they pretty much could cover anything they wanted to...because of his impeccable arranging/producing, and her classy, crystalline vocals. They influenced A LOT of people and that says a lot about them. Chrissie Hynde, Jann Arden, Sandi Patty, k d Lang, Shania Twain, Reba, Amy Grant, Wilson Phillips, Matthew Sweet, Smashing Pumpkins, Sonic Youth, Sheryl Crow, Gene Simmons, Neil Sedaka, Barbra Streisand, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Akiko Kobayashi, Veronique Belliveau, Celine Dion, Mandy Moore, Madonna, and many many other artists have publicly shared their admiration to Richard and Karen Carpenter's style. That means a lot. They ushered in a NEW SOUND into the 1970's...which sounded simple but was complex.
My thoughts, Cameron
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Post by Carps1000 on Aug 26, 2005 3:13:01 GMT -5
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Post by beaner on Aug 26, 2005 5:27:43 GMT -5
It really is a shame that people have to be like that. I feel bad that you had to see this, Rick, but like Ken said, try not to let it upset you. People like this have no conscience and more than likely, their brains are warped from something or other.
As I'm always told, "What goes around comes around", so they'll get theirs when the time comes.
Take care
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Post by enigma on Aug 26, 2005 7:40:40 GMT -5
If I may also add something to what joe said he mentioned raw emotion in rock and roll and stated that the carpenters were perfectionists. Yes that is true but the Carpenters namely Karen Carpenter put alot of raw emotion into what she sang she was not a just a robot that sang everthing perfectly she put as much if not more emotion into what she sang than those so called rock gods did. Because the quality of music was high and because Karen and Richard were perfectionists does not mean their music lacked raw emotion it had plenty of that. the R&R HOF has alot of act that are not strait up Rock and Roll many artists had soul, country and yes pop sounds look over the past inductees a good deal of them are not stgrictly Rock and Roll acts. Rick as for this person I am glad you did what needed to be done. Its sad that people act the way they do and I can relate Rick I really can as I have also been targeted by people hell bent on destroying Carpenters web sites but like Rick I will not be intimidated and it only makes me all the more determined to continue what I am doing.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Aug 26, 2005 8:51:15 GMT -5
I am so saddened to learn of this event. I have been so covered up with work these past couple of weeks that I have not been able to post much. As I sit here, listening to Karen singing This Masquerade, it strikes me how much this person is missing about this lovely young woman who was Karen Carpenter. As for the comments about Carpenters not being rock and roll, I defer to Cam's, Enigma's, Rick's, Dave's and all of your other posts. Cam stated it eloquently, I think. Carpenters were a HUGE influence on so many ROCK artists. Their sound was contemporary pop, true, MOST of the time. Yet, they were so adept at anything they wanted to do, yes? They introduced a rock fuzz guitar into the most beautiful Goodbye To Love, and the music industry groaned, for a minute. Only for a minute. The industry, itself, knew that Carpenters were a duo to be reckoned with. That they were making a substantial contribution to the music of the day, and I truly believe that they also KNEW, instinctively that Karen and Richard's sound would forevermore be an important part in the evolution of music, rock, pop or otherwise, from the time they first graced the airwaves with (They Long To Be) Close To You. It was inevitable. Rick, I hate that you had to discover this, the crude verbiage used, and just the plain ugliness of it all. I agree with you that everyone is entitled to their opinions. Granted. But why take the time to "attempt" to do damage to something so good? It doesn't make sense to me, and I know it doesn't to all who have posted above me - because in reading your posts, I can sense that. Yet, these things happen because of human nature. It takes a big person with a good heart and a strong faith to be able to forgive in the fashion you described, Rick. Kudos to you for that. I can imagine it has been a truly upsetting episode. If I'd found it, I can't imagine I would have reacted quite as appropriately as you have seemingly managed to do. Karen and Richard Carpenter deserve, in my OPINION, to definitely be rewarded by a place in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, due to a myriad of reasons. I firmly believe that, and will continue my efforts, both in letterwriting and emailing campaigns to continue to get the number of supporting signatures we need so that those who require such will see that those of us who are Carpenter supporters and fans mean business, and mean what we say when we state our support for this induction. I wish you all the very best! Tim
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Post by cam83 on Aug 26, 2005 12:14:15 GMT -5
Personally, I wouldn't let something like THAT bother you. We live in a land of free speech, whether or not we like it. I am glad we live in countries like that. Canada...USA...etc.
Not everyone will agree with our admiration for the Carpenters. And I don't have a problem saying to others if I like or dislike a music artist...my perogative...like, if I say, I can't STAND Brittney Spears...or can't stand RAP...or hate R&B...I am entitled to say that.
BUT I guess what I mean to say, is that if we add FUEL to a person's fire...it adds to a big FIRE...but if we just leave it be...the fire will DIE out...
My thoughts, Cam
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 26, 2005 12:18:24 GMT -5
Hi folks, Rock and roll is a state of mind - raw emotions. The Carpenters were bent on being perfect. They even pre-recorded live music, just so it would sount perfect. They were not spontaneous. Please people, they were very good at what they did, very well-crafted POP. NOT ROCK. Later, JD How about rock groups like Pink Floyd, Kansas, Yes, Asia, Genesis and King Crimson. Their music is perfectly produced and arranged. There are many many rock groups out there who are perfectionists the Carpenters do not have the corner on that market. Look at the Beatles' "Abbey Road", "White Album", "Sgt Peppers", "Magical Mystery Tour" and "Revolver" - these albums didn't happen on just raw emotion alone. There was a lot of painstaking perfectionistic effort that went into each one of these monumental albums.
The Carpenters are also not the only group/artist in the world who has had prerecorded music in their television performances. Elvis Presley, Beatles, Beach Boys, and many others have all lip synched to their records on television programs like American Bandstand and other shows.
As for live concert performances the Carpenters played everything live. Their band was more than competent enough to play a perfect live show.
The RRHOF is not only about raw emotion (which as Enigma stated Karen Carpenter in her voice alone had much raw and natural emotion) spontaneity. It's about who was around during the rock and roll era and who helped shape the sound of music in their time period and who influenced other musicians (and listeners as well). The Carpenters were a huge influence on millions in their time as well as today. Cam83 posted a list of several who have commented at one point or another that Carpenters are an influence or atleast a favorite group. To Cam's list we can also add Alice Cooper and Gloria Estefan. As Cam commented The Carpenters helped usher a new more sophisticated sound into the 1970's called "Soft Rock".
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Post by Rick Henry on Aug 26, 2005 12:23:33 GMT -5
Personally, I wouldn't let something like THAT bother you. We live in a land of free speech, whether or not we like it. I am glad we live in countries like that. Canada...USA...etc. Not everyone will agree with our admiration for the Carpenters. And I don't have a problem saying to others if I like or dislike a music artist...my perogative...like, if I say, I can't STAND Brittney Spears...or can't stand RAP...or hate R&B...I am entitled to say that. So, we shouldn't be making a big deal of it, in my opinion...that's life...is my feeling. Just delete if you can, and move on... My thoughts, Cam Cam, you are so right. I agree with everything you have to say here. We are all entitled to our opinions. Although when it's on a public document which children will also be viewing and the person is using profanity and also making vulgar comments about a person's health, life or death - somehow that just does not seem right.
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Post by cam83 on Aug 26, 2005 12:24:33 GMT -5
No, you are right Rick, if there is profanity...than yes...it should NOT be allowed...
My thoughts, Cam
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