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Post by cam83 on Apr 4, 2005 13:18:40 GMT -5
Definately. They may have not liked the song...BUT WHAT DO THEY KNOW? LOL. I think many fans will agree that it showcases Karen's vocal ability to a tee. And it has such a delightful mournful quality and I love the fact that the song starts out slow and kinda picks up speed near the end of the song.
My thoughts,
Cameron
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Apr 4, 2005 18:08:47 GMT -5
??# I have to agree, the bottom line here is that the song is beautiful - and so beautifully sung. It's dark, and it speaks to me.  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 4, 2005 23:01:56 GMT -5
Also Richard said something to the effect that Karen outdid herself on this vocal. I do not remember the exact quote so I must rely on my memory but he was highly complimenary of Karens vocal on the song. This and the fact that Richard released it as a single, it charted, and he has included the song on most Carpenters compilations says that he must have liked the finished product even if it was not perfect. I agree with all of you it is a great vocal as I said before the vocal and lyrics touch me on a deeper emotional level. I fnd the song sad and at times it does get to me...A beautiful song!
??# *%
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 5, 2005 0:19:14 GMT -5
Enigma - I remember reading that statement also. It's just seems so ironic that the song that most Carpenters fans find to be Karen's finest moment is one she really didn't care for.  |
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Post by cam83 on Apr 5, 2005 1:10:54 GMT -5
Yeah, but something special came out of her best work that she didn't like. Which makes me think that a lot of her body of work, she may not have liked that much...typical of a perfectionist. And she just might have not liked it to sing it...who wants to sing a boring song, no matter how beautiful it sounds? I wonder what her thoughts are about Crescent Noon, which I think is similar to this song...
Cam
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 5, 2005 9:24:13 GMT -5
Yeah, but something special came out of her best work that she didn't like. Which makes me think that a lot of her body of work, she may not have liked that much...typical of a perfectionist. And she just might have not liked it to sing it...who wants to sing a boring song, no matter how beautiful it sounds? I wonder what her thoughts are about Crescent Noon, which I think is similar to this song... Cam Interesting thought Cam. There are so many which have a slow tempo and are dark like "Solitaire". I have noticed that Karen had a fondness for songs written by Richard and Bettis though. As she's mentioned at points in time that "Goodbye To Love" and "I Need To Be In Love" were favorites of hers. |
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Post by Rob813 on Apr 9, 2005 16:00:47 GMT -5
I read in an interview that Richard and Karen gave that she found the song very "draggy". I agree it's a wonderful song, but for all their efforts to record it, Karen still felt that the tempo was too slow. If someone asks this of Richard on his website, he might fill in all of the blanks.
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 10, 2005 9:54:52 GMT -5
That is so funny that Karen would feel the song drags when in reality it's bold and powerful in it's intricate and intimate way. As for Richard filling in any blanks I don't think that will happen as the topic has already been brought up to him (several times) and the answer is always vague. It's always the same that Karen just didn't like the song and that she never said why she didn't like it. This I find hard to believe - but I guess that's the answer we have to settle for. That's why I feel it could have been something personal than something teachnical like it drags or it's too slow. Because if that were the case Karen would dislike the majority of Carpenters music. Just my thoughts... |
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Post by enigma on Apr 10, 2005 13:28:13 GMT -5
That is so funny that Karen would feel the song drags when in reality it's bold and powerful in it's intricate and intimate way. As for Richard filling in any blanks I don't think that will happen as the topic has already been brought up to him (several times) and the answer is always vague. It's always the same that Karen just didn't like the song and that she never said why she didn't like it. This I find hard to believe - but I guess that's the answer we have to settle for. That's why I feel it could have been something personal than something teachnical like it drags or it's too slow. Because if that were the case Karen would dislike the majority of Carpenters music. Just my thoughts... Rick don't get me wrong here your theory of a personal reason for Karens dislike for the song may be correct. The only trouble I have with it is I have seen no evidence to support this idea. First of all Karen did not like this song from the very beginning before the Sedaka firing (I will assume you are referring to this when you say personal reasons if not forgive the assumption) and I believe even before he was on tour with the Carpenters. Second Karens reaction to Neils firing was not one of anger she was in tears, apologetic and clearly upset but it was Richards tantrum backstage that likely made her upset not anything Neil did in any case I do not associate tears with anger so its clear to me she was not angry that night. Thirdly there are a number of accounts in this thread where Karen herself has stated in interviews why she disliked the song and in none of them does she even mention Sedakas name let alone give any indication of anomousity or something personal going on there. I tend to believe what Karen herself says over what Richard or anyone else says. Finally I find it strange that Karen recorded Breaking Up Is Hard To Do after the incident yes it was a peace offering between Neil and The Carpenter Camp but I believe she also performed it live several times so if there was something personal btween the Carpenters and Neil Sedaka then why would they continue to perform his songs? This is in no way to show disrespect for your theory Rick but there appears to be more evedice to support the fact that it was the song itself that Karen did not like rather than a personal thing. Also remember this is not the only example of Karen not liking a song she recorded as we know there are a few other examples. Hope this does not offend you Rick.  &^ *% |
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 10, 2005 18:29:46 GMT -5
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Post by cam83 on Apr 11, 2005 1:16:21 GMT -5
Well said Enigma! I totally agree as well. And SOLITAIRE is just sung superbly by Karen. But like a lot of geniuses, they don't find their best work good at all...so I guess Karen is in great company. Cameron |
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Post by enigma on Apr 11, 2005 6:43:04 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 13, 2005 11:24:15 GMT -5
Thanks Rick and Cam You know we talked about Richard being a little too controlling over Karen and sometimes big brother did know best. When he convinced Karen to give Superstar a chance he really knew what he was doing this song really solidified my love of Karens voice I consider it her finest if not one of her finest performances. As for Solitaire you guys are right from Karens side of the microphone the song may not have been appealing at least not to Karen but Richard must have heard what we and others did a great vocal and it must have convinced him that this was a really strong song dispite Karens dislike for it in this case as well I think big brother did know best Richard was right on the money with this call. The song is a true work of art. Great arrangement as well!     Yes, in this case Richard did know best (though he himself was not always infallible). Obviously someone in the Carpenters camp or A&M family liked the song quite a bit as it was released as a single. That in itself says a lot for the song. |
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No way Enigma, I am not in the least offended. You are only sharing your thoughts and highlighting the facts. Enigma you are 100% correct in all the statements you've made here. Looking at only the facts as to what Karen has said she has never mentioned anything about Sedaka in her comment about why she doesn't like the song.
