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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 24, 2005 2:14:06 GMT -5
My take is if they were to have actually had confidence enough in the album to release it. A&M or possibly Phil Ramone would have assembled a staff other than what would usually be used for a Carpenters album to develop a promotional angle for KC's album. I feel in 1980 promoting Karen solo would have been much easier to do instead of once again promoting the wholesome brother and sister act. There's nothing wrong with wholesome and Karen would not have been promted as anything other than wholesome even solo. But I just think promoting Karen solo in 1980-81 would have been somewhat more appealing to the public in general. As for what the public might think. Well just speaking in terms of honesty half the population at that time most likely wouldn't have cared less. Half of that half probably would have said they like her better solo. And then others who of course detest her solo venture. i think Karen would have gained more fans going solo than she would loss. Carpenters, but even more so Karen Carpenter fans are pretty loyal. Cameron said something about dance remixes in an earlier post. Dance mixes of "Lovelines", "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night", "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind", "Making Love In The Afternoon" and "Still In Love With You" would have been excellent and most likely would have done well in the clubs. In my mind I feel Karen's album would have been very easy to promote. Only because beyond the Carpenters, Karen really was very well loved by the public.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 24, 2005 9:39:24 GMT -5
My take is if they were to have actually had confidence enough in the album to release it. A&M or possibly Phil Ramone would have assembled a staff other than what would usually be used for a Carpenters album to develop a promotional angle for KC's album. I feel in 1980 promoting Karen solo would have been much easier to do instead of once again promoting the wholesome brother and sister act. There's nothing wrong with wholesome and Karen would not have been promted as anything other than wholesome even solo. But I just think promoting Karen solo in 1980-81 would have been somewhat more appealing to the public in general. As for what the public might think. Well just speaking in terms of honesty half the population at that time most likely wouldn't have cared less. Half of that half probably would have said they like her better solo. And then others who of course detest her solo venture. i think Karen would have gained more fans going solo than she would loss. Carpenters, but even more so Karen Carpenter fans are pretty loyal. Cameron said something about dance remixes in an earlier post. Dance mixes of "Lovelines", "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night", "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind", "Making Love In The Afternoon" and "Still In Love With You" would have been excellent and most likely would have done well in the clubs. In my mind I feel Karen's album would have been very easy to promote. Only because beyond the Carpenters, Karen really was very well loved by the public. ^^ I have to agree on the parts here where you talk about fans being so loyal especially to Karen - and that had it been released, those fans, plus regular Carpenters fans would have loved it. No doubt in my mind about that. I still contend, however, that part of the reason it didn't get out was because of the very thing you said - Karen herself, had a following ASIDE from Carpenters as we knew them - people loved Karen's voice - and many didn't even really understand the role Rich played. So - to promote Karen might have been the END of Carpenters, as we knew them. This, I think, was part of the problem of not knowing quite how to promote KC's solo effort without just ending Carpenters as a duo.. I wonder... Cheers! ^^
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 24, 2005 9:46:20 GMT -5
I have to agree on the parts here where you talk about fans being so loyal especially to Karen - and that had it been released, those fans, plus regular Carpenters fans would have loved it. No doubt in my mind about that. I still contend, however, that part of the reason it didn't get out was because of the very thing you said - Karen herself, had a following ASIDE from Carpenters as we knew them - people loved Karen's voice - and many didn't even really understand the role Rich played. So - to promote Karen might have been the END of Carpenters, as we knew them. This, I think, was part of the problem of not knowing quite how to promote KC's solo effort without just ending Carpenters as a duo.. I wonder... Cheers! I see your point Tim. Yes, that could cause some problems. Because I'm sure A&M did not want to end the Carpenters. But really I don't see why a KC solo album release would have to end Carpenters.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 24, 2005 11:15:52 GMT -5
I see your point Tim. Yes, that could cause some problems. Because I'm sure A&M did not want to end the Carpenters. But really I don't see why a KC solo album release would have to end Carpenters. $% Perhaps "end" was too strong - let's say, it would have put a big "dent" in the duo's pristine image at that time. They were a duo - what the heck was going on with Karen doing a solo CD - I'm just musing on the possibilities.
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Post by Carps1000 on Mar 24, 2005 11:16:56 GMT -5
Hi all. My view is if the solo album had of come out in 79/80 it would have probably been a massive chart hit here in the UK with the right promoting.. Making Love... was the only track worth a single ( I do love it.) How ever Knowing A & Ms recent advertising of Cs albums I dont think they would have bothered with promoting it much at all as the disgusting example of "Lovelines" in 89/90 proved...Boy did A&M get it in the neck from me....again as the album only made no 73 for a week in our charts...what a waste ...hardly any one realising that such a beautiful album had just been released.. When you have a gift like Karens voice & Richards sheer genius you dont ignore it. Ken
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Post by enigma on Mar 24, 2005 11:40:50 GMT -5
Karens solo career would no more end the Carpenters then Phil Collins solo career ended Genesis. Phil Collins had sucessful solo album from his debut and No Jacket Required did huge sales yet he still reunited with his former band Genesis and he did not have any family or other reason to do it. To tell you the truth in that case the experiences away from Genesis (both Phil Collins and Mike and the Mechanics) only made the albums that Genesis produced better and fresher when they reunited. Karen Carpenter could have and no doubt would have done the same as Phil did her ties to Richard were much stronger that Phils were to Genesis. However at the time of the solo record no one was doing anything like that as such (though Kiss did have solo records and briefly reunited with their original lineup) and artists went solo and stayed solo so the concern may have been founded. Personally I think its ridiculouus to say Richard was afraid of Karens success because he took a back seat to Karen all their career and while it probably bothered him he accepted his role and rarely complained. Remember before the Carpenters were even signed Richard had stated many times that he knew Karen would be signed as a solo artist if the Carpenters were not signed. He was prepared to accept Karen as a solo artist then so he would have accepted it in 1980. I think he and A&M were protecting the Carpenter machine not holding Karen back or trying to control her. They simply did not know if what they were listening to would be a hit and that uncertainty led them to take the safe route and shelf the record. Were their assumptions of a flop record correct? I do not think so. Would it be better to take a chance and release a solo record from someone who had made you so much money and was loyal to you? Of course unfortuneately it did not happen that way.
BTW Karen Carpenter fans are not a factor here because no matter when the record was released KC fans would buy it. I am sure they did in 1996 and were clearly instrumental in getting the record released those are garanteed bankable sales its the rest of the public you have to sell it to.
&^ *%
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 24, 2005 13:03:59 GMT -5
$% Well, Enigma, with such a blatantly strong opposing viewpoint from you, it looks like perhaps we (I) must be just plain silly for posing the question in the first place. Hmmm...
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 24, 2005 14:17:13 GMT -5
Well, Enigma, with such a blatantly strong opposing viewpoint from you, it looks like perhaps we (I) must be just plain silly for posing the question in the first place. Hmmm... I don't think so, Tim... That was a pretty good question to ask. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by shalalala on Mar 24, 2005 18:26:50 GMT -5
Tim, I don't think your question is silly at all.
Matter of fact, it's very interesting.
We'll never know how Karen's solo career would have affected the Carpenters as a duo. I do think it had the potential to create some problems, and I emphasize potential. If Karen's solo career had taken off, and I am sure it would have, then where would that leave Richard?
However, I don't think that factored in Richard's reasoning to vote to shelve the LP in 1980. I hope it didn't, anyway. From what I understand, he genuinely didn't think the LP was up to snuff, nor did he approve of the new image it projected of his sister.
Richard was overly protective of Karen, and she of him. If there was a tragic flaw to the Carpenters -- to borrow a literary term -- that was it.
I would like to think that Richard just made the wrong call, a bad decision. He had made mistakes before (not thinking "Top of the World" was single-quality, for example).
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Post by enigma on Mar 24, 2005 19:13:59 GMT -5
Well, Enigma, with such a blatantly strong opposing viewpoint from you, it looks like perhaps we (I) must be just plain silly for posing the question in the first place. Hmmm... Actually Tim I was thinking of another post when I made my reply I apologise if it seemed strong or to be disrespectful of your or anyone elses view. Strong or not its only my view point and is no more important than anyone elses.
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 24, 2005 20:12:43 GMT -5
You're crazy *Funny Dave*. ;D I still see you singing *Rainbow connection* in the shower..., or maybe *My Body Keeps Changing My Mind* this time. ;D [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 24, 2005 20:35:44 GMT -5
@@ Roland..I'm just laughing out loud here! You guys are too funny. Dave, I really like your analysis of both songs - at least, what is at the root of them (you funny, funny man). I truly do think the "Make Believe It's Your First Time" on Karen's solo album is much more intimate. I really like the way it's done better than the more elaborate, flowery version Richard did on Lovelines. Enigma - I post on this forum because I enjoy getting the feedback of individuals and learning new things, and if I can share some experiences and, yes, some opinions, I enjoy that too. What I'm not looking for is an argument. I get enough of that in life. Don't worry about your post - there is no need to apologize. As I said, I just want to have fun, be challenged to learn new things, and be able to share my opinion. Mark, thanks for your post, too. I think you have a lot of valid points. I agree, Dave, perhaps some of this ought to now get moved to the Too Hot To Handle topic that's there already. It seems to be headed in that direction. Gentlemen, start your engines! Tim #$
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 24, 2005 20:55:53 GMT -5
These days, I can laugh and smile when I listen to "Rainbow Connection". No more tears...I changed shampoo! And the last time I tried to sing in the shower, I inhaled shampoo. That hurt...it took a week for my voice to return to it's normal basso profundo (think Toby Keith). That's it Dave..., you just found it!!
Inhaling shampoo is the reason why Karen was singing higher on her solo album. ;D [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 24, 2005 21:15:21 GMT -5
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Post by karen69roland on Mar 24, 2005 21:33:28 GMT -5
Yes..., I think we better stop using those substances ourselves Funny Dave 'cause people are gonna start thinking we're really crazy...
..., well..., they would be correct. ;D [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 24, 2005 22:46:27 GMT -5
Karens solo career would no more end the Carpenters then Phil Collins solo career ended Genesis. Thank you Enigma for using this analogy. I agree with this one. Hi all. My view is if the solo album had of come out in 79/80 it would have probably been a massive chart hit here in the UK with the right promoting.. Making Love... was the only track worth a single ( I do love it.) How ever Knowing A & Ms recent advertising of Cs albums I dont think they would have bothered with promoting it much at all as the disgusting example of "Lovelines" in 89/90 proved...Boy did A&M get it in the neck from me....again as the album only made no 73 for a week in our charts...what a waste ...hardly any one realising that such a beautiful album had just been released.. When you have a gift like Karens voice & Richards sheer genius you dont ignore it. Ken Hi Carps1000 I feel the album would have been a huge hit in UK, Japan, and U.S. But I see more than just one single from the album. I see easily four to five strong choices for single. If I were to choose the singles from the album. I'd start with "If I Had You" as the first release. followed second by "Making Love In The Afternoon", third "Guess I Just Lost My Head" and fourth "Make Believe It's Your First Time". Along with these singles there would be a entire other set of 12" singles released for club play. Those would be "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night", "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind", "Lovelines", "Still In Love With You" and "Making Love In The Afternoon". Other possibilities for single release are "All Because Of You", this one has potential because it could be marketed to both the pop and country audience. "Still Crazy After All These Years" is also a good single possibility as remakes of familiar songs are genrally welcome by the public. I think A&M would have certainly promoted "Karen Carpenter" had they released it. Afterall A&M promoted "Made In America" quite well. A&M also put a lot into promoting the 1984 compilation "Yesterday Once More". True they did not promote "Lovelines" at all, but by that point I believe A&M was no longer really A&M and Herb Alpert and all the other A&M players were no longer around. So, to A&M (as it was in 1989) the Carpenters were merely a name act to embellish profits. I am happy to see though that Universal is finally putting something into promoting Carpenters. Not much but they are doing more than RCA did in the late 80's and Polygram in the 90's. Tim, I don't think your question is silly at all. Matter of fact, it's very interesting. We'll never know how Karen's solo career would have affected the Carpenters as a duo. I do think it had the potential to create some problems, and I emphasize potential. If Karen's solo career had taken off, and I am sure it would have, then where would that leave Richard? However, I don't think that factored in Richard's reasoning to vote to shelve the LP in 1980. I hope it didn't, anyway. From what I understand, he genuinely didn't think the LP was up to snuff, nor did he approve of the new image it projected of his sister. Richard was overly protective of Karen, and she of him. If there was a tragic flaw to the Carpenters -- to borrow a literary term -- that was it. I would like to think that Richard just made the wrong call, a bad decision. He had made mistakes before (not thinking "Top of the World" was single-quality, for example). Shalalala I like your viewpoint as to why you feel Richard amy have felt the way he did about KC solo. Could just be Richard simply made a bad decision. Roland..I'm just laughing out loud here! You guys are too funny. Dave, I really like your analysis of both songs - at least, what is at the root of them (you funny, funny man). I truly do think the "Make Believe It's Your First Time" on Karen's solo album is much more intimate. I really like the way it's done better than the more elaborate, flowery version Richard did on Lovelines. Enigma - I post on this forum because I enjoy getting the feedback of individuals and learning new things, and if I can share some experiences and, yes, some opinions, I enjoy that too. What I'm not looking for is an argument. I get enough of that in life. Don't worry about your post - there is no need to apologize. As I said, I just want to have fun, be challenged to learn new things, and be able to share my opinion. Mark, thanks for your post, too. I think you have a lot of valid points. I agree, Dave, perhaps some of this ought to now get moved to the Too Hot To Handle topic that's there already. It seems to be headed in that direction. Gentlemen, start your engines! Tim To you my friend Tim, your question about whether or not A&M would have promoted karen's album or how they would have promoted it is a valid question. As I've stated before i feel if A&M would have actually taken the chance to release it, they would have certainly promoted it. There are so many interesting angles they could have used. And at that point in time A&M was still very much into their main "cash cow" (pardon the cliche). Any release with Karen singing at that point in time was going to automatically receive it's share of promotion from A&M.
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Post by Carps1000 on Mar 25, 2005 12:10:21 GMT -5
Shampoo!!! steriods!!!! Shrek!!!! Oh god I have lost the plot here!!!!!!......Right thats it!! Im off to play the solo album AND LOVELINES & A little bit of Stevie Nicks too but before I go heres a little bit of sommat that I read a while ago. Alice Cooper ( Remember him???) is a big fan of Karen & when asked who he likes to listen & relax to singing wise he replied Carpenters & when asked again surely it would have been heavy metal he sternly replied NO!CARPENTERS!! Oh Yes & Lemmy from Moterhead loves Carps too. Theres seal of approval for you. Bye for now. Ken (The only Carps1000 there is. Yeahhhh) Ps: When I return its gonna b Carpenters Quiz time.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 25, 2005 12:42:52 GMT -5
Shampoo!!! steriods!!!! Shrek!!!! Oh god I have lost the plot here!!!!!!......Right thats it!! Im off to play the solo album AND LOVELINES & A little bit of Stevie Nicks too but before I go heres a little bit of sommat that I read a while ago. Alice Cooper ( Remember him???) is a big fan of Karen & when asked who he likes to listen & relax to singing wise he replied Carpenters & when asked again surely it would have been heavy metal he sternly replied NO!CARPENTERS!! Oh Yes & Lemmy from Moterhead loves Carps too. Theres seal of approval for you. Bye for now. Ken (The only Carps1000 there is. Yeahhhh) Ps: When I return its gonna b Carpenters Quiz time. Hi Ken! that is some interesting information. I have heard that Alice Cooper loves Karen, but didn't know about Lemmy. karen Carpenter truly does appeal to a wide demographics of people. Probably wider than we realize. Just another comment on the solo album. I know that I get somewhat emotional about the album, but I must state that I truly believe and support Karen's vision here. Beyond all the, "would it have been a hit or would it have been promoted", I just really love this album. One because the music is outstanding and I love hearing a different side of Karen's amazing vocal abilities. And two because this is Karen stepping out and showing us who she really was. I feel she identified to these songs much more so than others that were recorded for "Made In America". I am not putting "Made In america" down when I say this, because I love MIA. I just feel the songs on KC solo reflect more of who Karen was. A young and fun upbeat person. Ken you mention something about Carpenters quiz time. that sounds like fun. Maybe you can start a whole new thread on that so we can have fun with that one. thanks Ken.
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