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Post by Carps1000 on Apr 9, 2005 15:50:42 GMT -5
The following is about an article I have just reread after finding it again after some years & is my own personal viewpoint & if it offends...Tough!! but When I 1st reread this article My tongue stuck to the roof of my mouth in horror!!! I have always been man enough to respect anothers opinions/viewpoints but this time no way. There is a man in the UK who has is own T V show alledges to be a commedian & an all out entertainer. His Name is Graham Norton & well I have only seen a few minutes of a couple of his shows & switched channels. When I first started my Carps Collection memrebillia books there was an article in one of our nationals about the Cs & their tribute bands (at the time then there was a bout 5.) Well one of these "tributes" was the very same Norton called the KC Biscuit Tin Society & the article stated how he toured the country ridiculing Karen for laughs ( He apparently denies it now but one excerpt states how he'd rather cut his legs off & stick pins in his eyes than buy a Cs record ( & that was one of the nicer comments he made) I was just reading thru my Carps Collection 2day when I came across this long forgotten article done b4 he made it big..& I didnt really know of him then just thought he was a nasty bit of work.Funny now however he admits to an actual liking for their music when they had a massive comeback in the 90s & obviously now feels he is in the minority of people knocking the Cs so he has to change sides. People who have read my ramblings in my other imputs to this site will recall me writing about a music paper called Record Mirror who 4 years slagged off the Cs as it was deemed cool to do so but then changed their views when the majority led & most people acknowledged the sheer genius of R & the dream like sound of K just in the same way as the so called know it all critics who when they couldnt find a fault with the sound just made it up. I do hate people are jealous of others success & also can only appear to make a living on other peoples sufferings. I have fired off a note to the TV channel he appears on with a few choice words about him being ashamed of himself in trying to get a laugh out of someone elses misery with the ending that I hope he rots in hell & I bet he wouldnt have dared say anything of the sort of mutterings he did then if Karen was still alive. So if this man comes to the USA please go & see him & take plenty of rotten fruit to throw with the shout of" this is 4 Karen". Nuff said. Ken Carps1000
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Post by cam83 on Apr 9, 2005 18:12:26 GMT -5
Well I am not sure that throwing rotten fruit would be the thing to do. Yes, he may not say complimentary things about Karen or Richard, but that is his opinion. And he has a right to share it, even if we might not totally agree with it. As entertainers, in the public eye, they had to get used to criticisms. You just have to. You will have lots of people that like you and then you will have others that hate you or your stuff.
My thoughts,
Cameron
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 9, 2005 21:05:22 GMT -5
Well I am not sure that throwing rotten fruit would be the thing to do. Yes, he may not say complimentary things about Karen or Richard, but that is his opinion. And he has a right to share it, even if we might not totally agree with it. As entertainers, in the public eye, they had to get used to criticisms. You just have to. You will have lots of people that like you and then you will have others that hate you or your stuff. My thoughts, Cameron Very eloquently said Cam. Bravo to you! I agree. I may not like what Graham Norton may have said. As with I don't like what Bette Midler and several other entertainers and critics may have had to say about the Carpenters. The Carpenters didn't and don't deserve the ridicule they have received. It doesn't seem very kind but at the same point there's always going to be someone who says something you don't like. I would say my best defense against someone like Graham Norton would be to not go see his show and just simply ignore him (why would I want to put money in his pocket).  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 10, 2005 1:01:07 GMT -5
I understand getting fed up with the constant criticism of the Carpenters as Richard once said He did not mind the criticism but now and then he would have to address criticism because it could be relentless, really personal, and things said were simply untrue. Karen was even more sensitive to the criticism than Richard and many times stated her displeasure at the constant criticism. This was their work and K&R worked hard to perfect their music so I can see why they hated the way the critics trashed it and no matter what K&R did they could not get critics to change their views. While I agree that criticism of their music is unwarrented and people like Bette Midler went over the line when bashing the Carpenters and especially Karen I do respect others opinions even if I do not agree with them or find their comments in poor taste. I grew up with Carpenter bashing all around me not only by critics and celeberties/commedians but by most everyone around me so I have got used to it and it never diminished my love of the Carpenters and especially Karen herself. I agree with Rick I would not give a wooden nickel to see Graham Norton or Bette Midler or anyone for that matter who is going to ridicule or criticise that which I love. I would not put money in the pocket of someone like that either.
&^ *%
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Post by Carps1000 on Apr 10, 2005 3:06:25 GMT -5
Hi All. Me again. Cam, Rick, Enigma, I take on board what you say but I still stand by what i say that NO ONE has the right to mock someone elses suffering & especially when all K & R did was to fill the world with sommat beautiful.....Who said I would pay to go & see Norton?  ??just stand outside the thertre. Pity R & K didnt react a little more harshly to these bashers, not that Im condoning violence far from it I'm a peace loving geezer but a very swit writ more often would have hurt more. I have forgiven Bette Midler as she went public with an apology a while back & Im just hopin that it wasnt just because everyone else changed sides when Cs became cool & liked em, I have also forgiven Joan Rivers as she always denied any malice & she was taken out of proportion by the papraatzzi ( cant spell it) just like Donna Summer was back in 79 with comments. I just get so bloody angry with certain types. Oh god I still miss Karen so much & it bloody hurts when I listen to her voice & see her on the TV specials (You lot seen Bruce Forsythe 78 ) K & R were a beautiful gift & harmed no one HOW DARE ANYONE MOCK THEM yep have yr own opinions by all means but dont make money outta peoples miseries. Ken (The only real notorius Carps 1000 there is in the world) |
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Post by Rick Henry on Apr 10, 2005 9:48:43 GMT -5
Ken, you are right Karen and Richard certainly did not deserve the bashing they received. After all what they gave the world is truly genuine. It's not like they're Britney Spears, or Jessica or Ashlee Simpson or any of that lot whose acts do attract mockery. The Carpenters were and are genuinely talented and the music they released was absultely outstanding. I think that's why they have endured all these years. That's why the critics changed their mind on the Carpenters. I just think in the 70's and early 80's critics didn't know what to think about them. and it was more because of their image instead of their music. As for the way Karen and Richard handled the criticsm. I think they handled it extremely well. They acted with intelligence and graciousness. I am happy that they didn't get angry and make fools of themselves. No way would it be appealing if Karen were to be foolish like say Courtney Love. They handled it perfectly and the reward is that the world remembers them as being intelligent and genuine. Bravo to Karen and Richard for shining through all the criticsm. I have seen the Bruce Forsythe performance. I think it was in 1979. Karen is beautifully dressed. Though it's very sad seeing her that thin. Very, very sad. I prefer seeing her from 1974 and before. That's when she looked her best. That's the Karen I want to remember - full of life and young and energetic and beautiful. |
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Apr 10, 2005 17:47:51 GMT -5
As for the way Karen and Richard handled the criticsm. I think they handled it extremely well. They acted with intelligence and graciousness. I am happy that they didn't get angry and make fools of themselves. No way would it be appealing if Karen were to be foolish like say Courtney Love. They handled it perfectly and the reward is that the world remembers them as being intelligent and genuine. Bravo to Karen and Richard for shining through all the criticsm. None of us like the criticism, Ken - none of us. But, we lived through it - and Karen and Richard were quite eloquent about how they handled it. They "grew" over the years, to accept it. They really didn't mind the ridicule of themselves so much - it was THE MUSIC they wanted people to recognize - that it was good - beautiful - well done - incredibly produced - and that voice! Most of the criticism was really about K and R - how they lived their lives. But, I think, in the end, they lived them the way they really wanted to. And, as for the criticism they endured then - not so, now. Who has really come out on top of all of this? Karen and Richard. People, kids nowdays, recognize and understand what a wonderful musical pair Carpenters truly were. They are buying their albums. People today are cementing the musicianship, production, quality, and beauty that was, and is, Carpenters. To that end, what else could we ask for? Karen is being remembered for the lovely, genuine talent she was, and Rich is being recognized for the genius that he truly is. Way cool. @@ |
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Post by cam83 on Apr 11, 2005 1:12:59 GMT -5
Well said Tim! The thing is, in order to be in the business you have to be able to eloquently handle both negative and positive criticisms. Actually, that is for all of us in our own lives. It's not easy, but sometimes you have to stand back and figure things out, and sometimes you can understand a person's negative reaction, as to where they are coming from...
My thoughts,
Cam
PS. And Karen and Richard probably had groups they detested too. They were human too.
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Post by karen69roland on Apr 11, 2005 2:33:09 GMT -5
 Karen didn't like The Rolling Stones..., but, she was always respectful. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by cam83 on Apr 11, 2005 2:40:42 GMT -5
and don't get me started on the SEX PISTOLS...Karen was very involved in getting them terminated from A&M Records...
Cam
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Post by Carps1000 on Apr 11, 2005 5:24:05 GMT -5
Really? ?? Please tell me more. Good on Karen!!!! |
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