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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 23, 2005 16:21:51 GMT -5
?* This is something that has been on my mind. The song "Now" was recorded in April 1982 during what was Karen's last recording session. This was ten months before her passing. I just wonder if possibly there were other songs recorded in this last session. And also if Karen was actually getting better why was this her last recording session? She lived another ten months that would have been more than enough time to get in several more sessions in the studio. Does anybody have any enlightenment here?
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Post by karen69roland on Feb 23, 2005 18:25:42 GMT -5
Hi Rick
I have already posted here what possible songs that The Carpenters may have recorded in 1982 and 1983..., but, nothing indicates that those songs were recorded in the same sessions as *Now*.
1982
- Love You Through And Through - Fallin' For Love - Fool Me (RC Vocal) - Some Guys Have All The Luck - Stop Me
1983
- Ain't Misbehavin' - Dizzy Fingers - How High The Moon - Slaughter On 10th Ave. - A Wedding Prayer - Lord's Prayer - Love As Old As The Heart (RC) - You'll Never Know
..., if there are others..., they are mentionned in the thread that we talked about those songs, last fall..., ' don't have time to search for it.
By the way..., in both the *From The Top* and *Essential Collection 1965-1997* it says that *Now* was recorded in April 1982..., but, in *The Compact Disc Collection* (1990), it says that it was recorded in March 1982.
I've checked some other references (like The Carpenters Newsletters and The Untold Story) and *Now* is always the only one mentionned when it comes to those Spring 1982 sessions. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by enigma on Feb 23, 2005 19:44:20 GMT -5
This is something that has been on my mind. The song "Now" was recorded in April 1982 during what was Karen's last recording session. This was ten months before her passing. I just wonder if possibly there were other songs recorded in this last session. And also if Karen was actually getting better why was this her last recording session? She lived another ten months that would have been more than enough time to get in several more sessions in the studio. Does anybody have any enlightenment here? Ok now take this for what it is I am not sure whether this is absolute fact but there is some evidence that supports this story. I read in an article that the period between 1980 and 1983 was a period where Karen and Richards relationship was stressed. After what happened with Karens solo record it has been said that Richard had trouble getting Karen to come into the studio and record with him. There was apparently a rift between them after the handling of the solo record and this accompanied by a few blowouts regarding Karens weight certainly give me reason to believe that the relationship was in a rough patch at this time. Also Karen was in therapy for her eating disorder so may have stayed away from the studio to concentrate on her therapy. Richard also said that the life had gone out of Karen when he was recording the sessions that included Now he said her eyes used to show such life and that they were just empty near the end so at that point Karen may have lost her desire to record. I think Karens recent problems and her strained relationship with Richard kept her out of the studio at this time. I had also heard talk at this time of a second solo record that Richard was going to produce which became the Voice of the Heart record (sopposedly if this record were to be completed it was going to be Karens second solo record). I would not say all this info was written in stone but it was what was going around about the time MIA and what became VOTH were recorded. This may explain the absence of recorded material at this time from Karen. Just some thoughts. &^ *%
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Feb 23, 2005 21:24:24 GMT -5
: Hi Rick I have already posted here what possible songs that The Carpenters may have recorded in 1982 and 1983..., but, nothing indicates that those songs were recorded in the same sessions as *Now*. 1982 - Love You Through And Through - Fallin' For Love - Fool Me (RC Vocal) - Some Guys Have All The Luck - Stop Me 1983 - Ain't Misbehavin' - Dizzy Fingers - How High The Moon - Slaughter On 10th Ave. - A Wedding Prayer - Lord's Prayer - Love As Old As The Heart (RC) - You'll Never Know ..., if there are others..., they are mentionned in the thread that we talked about those songs, last fall..., ' don't have time to search for it. I don't know anything of these sessions, but it's a very interesting topic you bring up, Rick. I would like to know more. Enigma, your post is quite interesting. I have also read about the rift between K and R...at least that their relationship was strained, to say the least. I don't have an exact time frame, though. I have also read many times about Richard's comments about Karen;s eyes being non-expressive as they had once been...that there was just nothing to look at when looking into her eyes. Such a sad thing to think about. Roland, I've quoted you above...and my question to you would be are these recordings available somewhere? Is there an album these songs were recorded for, or are they more of the "unreleased" or "lost" songs. Thanks for your help. I am quite interested to know if there are others on the forum who have answers to your query, Rick. ~Best to all, Tim
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Post by karen69roland on Feb 23, 2005 21:48:43 GMT -5
Hi Tim
No, none of those songs are available and I'm not even sure they were recorded..., I just posted what's writen in Yuko Ogura's Mook (Magazine/Book).
I guess you're now familiar with unreleased songs and want some more..., Tim?
..., ' just kidding..., I really hope you liked the unreleased KC solo songs. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 24, 2005 3:13:37 GMT -5
Ok now take this for what it is I am not sure whether this is absolute fact but there is some evidence that supports this story. I read in an article that the period between 1980 and 1983 was a period where Karen and Richards relationship was stressed. After what happened with Karens solo record it has been said that Richard had trouble getting Karen to come into the studio and record with him. There was apparently a rift between them after the handling of the solo record and this accompanied by a few blowouts regarding Karens weight certainly give me reason to believe that the relationship was in a rough patch at this time. Also Karen was in therapy for her eating disorder so may have stayed away from the studio to concentrate on her therapy. Richard also said that the life had gone out of Karen when he was recording the sessions that included Now he said her eyes used to show such life and that they were just empty near the end so at that point Karen may have lost her desire to record. I think Karens recent problems and her strained relationship with Richard kept her out of the studio at this time. I had also heard talk at this time of a second solo record that Richard was going to produce which became the Voice of the Heart record (sopposedly if this record were to be completed it was going to be Karens second solo record). I would not say all this info was written in stone but it was what was going around about the time MIA and what became VOTH were recorded. This may explain the absence of recorded material at this time from Karen. Just some thoughts. Wow, some interesting stuff here Enigma. I am apt to believe the strained relationship thing. And I can understand why maybe Karen didn't have the desire to go into the studio to record. What strikes me funny is how can an album produced by Richard Carpenter be a solo album for Karen? Seems to me this would end up sounding exactly like a Carpenters record. just more thoughts on the subject...
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Post by karen69roland on Feb 24, 2005 4:17:35 GMT -5
What strikes me funny is how can an album produced by Richard Carpenter be a solo album for Karen? Seems to me this would end up sounding exactly like a Carpenters record. This hypothesis is not only funny or bizarre..., but, non-sens, to me. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by beaner on Feb 24, 2005 6:38:54 GMT -5
I agree Rick. Richard producing a solo album for Karen would sound only like a Carpenter's style and not unique for a solo album.
I could even hear some Carpenter style on Scott Grimes album so you can't get away from that.
Karen really did the right thing in getting out and discovering on her own what she can do. It's just too bad she was surrounded by so much negativity. I still think today that "Now" is one of the best sounding voices of Karen.
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Post by Moe on Feb 24, 2005 6:40:50 GMT -5
Interesting topic.... I assumed after April of 1982, Karen spent her time dealing with anorexia until returning home at Thanksgiving. Taking time to readjust to California and catching up with friends, as well as celebrating the holidays, is what I thought Karen might be doing. The new year would have found the Carpenters getting ready for a new album, but Karen passed away in February. I remember in the Coleman biography that after the April recording sessions, that Richard was in New York checking into studios, but decided against it. Looking back, I would have hoped that Richard could have moved from his comfort zone of Califronia and worked in New York. This would have been so great to have recorded some standards or a new contemporary album. hindsight is always 20/20...
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2005 7:58:26 GMT -5
This hypothesis is not only funny or bizarre..., but, non-sens, to me. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow] If thats the way you feel thats fine but nonsense is a rather strong word. Its possible for Richard to bring in outside arrangers like he did on I Can Dream Can't I and make a different sounding record to anything released by the Carpenters. However if you buy into the fact that anything involving Karen and Richard is Carpenters then yes you may be correct there is no difference and hence the idea of Richard producing a solo record for Karen does not make sense or is nonsense. It was just something that was mentioned around the time MIA was released as for the next thing on the plate for Karen and Richard. Karen still believed in her first solo record until she died so I would think she would want to release that rather than start from scratch on a new solo record. Either way it seemed a solo record was on the horizon and would have been released soon after MIA maybe another Carp record would have been done first we'll never know for sure. The solo idea was not dead at the time I would think a solo record was inevidable and was due to happen in the near future. I honestly did not buy the Richard producing Karens solo record idea when I heard it either it would have defeated the purpose of Karen going solo.
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 24, 2005 10:06:02 GMT -5
Interesting topic.... I assumed after April of 1982, Karen spent her time dealing with anorexia until returning home at Thanksgiving. Taking time to readjust to California and catching up with friends, as well as celebrating the holidays, is what I thought Karen might be doing. The new year would have found the Carpenters getting ready for a new album, but Karen passed away in February. You are right Moe. Karen did go back to New York after the April 1982 sessions and came back home to California about a week or two before Thanksgiving. I kept thinking that she had been back for several months beofre the holidays. There goes my theory of inactivity during this period. Although it does seem like there should be more songs from the March/April 1982 recordings.
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Post by karen69roland on Feb 24, 2005 21:42:14 GMT -5
That hypothesis is just not logical, to me..., that's all.
Karen and Richard, working together, are..., The Carpenters. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 24, 2005 21:49:33 GMT -5
I agree totally with you Roland. K&R together are Carpenters. It just could not be a solo album if they are both involved in it.
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Post by Rob813 on Feb 26, 2005 16:38:09 GMT -5
Great ideas from everybody. I think that Karen recorded two songs in March/April 1982. I think You're Enough was one and Now the other. To me, Now is an extraordinary song. Considering Karen's weakened state, the quality of her voice is more beautiful than ever. Also, in the midst of all her problems, she was able to sing the lyrics of Now with such depth and character. It could not have been easy for her to do so. I don't think their next project was a solo album for Karen. The studio and Richard wanted more of the Carpenters and that's they would have gotten. Karen was willing to do Made In America so soon after her solo album was shot down. This shows she was willing to continue recording and be a part of the Carpenters. What would have lied beyond VOTH is anybody's guess.
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Mariah Andrews
CERTIFIED SILVER MEMBER
29/Lesbian M2F TS/Nevada. Longtime Carpenters Fan.
Posts: 49
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Post by Mariah Andrews on Feb 26, 2005 22:56:52 GMT -5
I've noticed that Karen's voice has gotten better in with age, progressing from Ticket To Ride to Voice Of The Heart, which you know she didn't live to see printed. Her voice to me showed no signs of weakness in the later years.
Not like some other rock stars who ail with a disease or a discomfort that leads to a young death. Listening to Queen, my most favorite male band of all, Freddie Mercury's voice did alter and change in the last two albums before his passing. (By the way, Queen will return on tour again, with Paul Rodgers of Bad Company as vocalist. If the come here to Las Vegas, I will still see them!)
But Karen, for one to not have paid any attention to her bad health and just to suddenly watch the news and see that she died, it would be a shock.
When another person with the initials K.C. died, in 1994, I was not surprised to learn of his death, for some reason. He allegedly ODed in Rome about a month or two before he passed on. Then again, they say that his wife cashed him out and hired a hitman to kill him suicide-style.
Well, do you stop and wonder if you had access to a time machine, do you think you could have prevented Karen's death? Why I brought that up is because I had a dream that I traveled back in time to December 8, 1980 and my friends and I stopped Mark Chapman from shooting John Lennon.
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Post by enigma on Feb 27, 2005 9:50:56 GMT -5
Interesting posts here.
Mariah and Dave I will touch on some things you two were saying here. First I used to wonder if I could have changed things for Karen and it is a difficult question to answer. Had someone got to Karen early enough there was hope but later on there was no way anyone could have saved Karen but a therapist trained in dealing with eathing disorders she was too far gone at that point say mid to late 70's and to get to Karen at all you would have to get approval from her family and clearly that was a very difficult task (you talk about having to win over a tough room). I come to the conclusion that there is nothing I could have done to save Karen there would be just so many things to go through to just to get to Karen and all the more just to gain her trust believe it or not she did not truely open up to just anybody few truely knew Karen she did build a wall around herself.
Dave Karens family and friends did not just sit by and let Karen waste away and die they did what they felt needed to be done to save her. Remember they had a way of dealing with Karen all her life they did not understand what they were dealing with and used the same methods to get Karen to eat as they would to get Karen to do anything else not knowing that this method of dealing with Karen was a symptom of her problem. For instance they used to insist that Karen eat they would confront her and yell at her when she didn't eat. They had no idea why she was not eating and Karen was likely too scared to tell them or may not have even known conciously herself why she was obsessed with her weight. They tried to use control to get her to eat and it was control or lack of it that caused her eating diorder as well as her general relationship with Agnes and Richard. They were not cold and uncaring I truely believe Karens family wanted to help her they just had no idea what they were dealing with, how to help Karen and clearly did not deal with Karens disease in the proper manner. I am uncertain whether you, I or anybody at the time besides a therapist would know what to do. We would all recognise something was wrong as did everyone at the time including Karens family but we would unlikely be any better equipt to deal with it given the information on eating disorders at the time.
&^ *%
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 27, 2005 12:58:12 GMT -5
Myself personally I don't think I would have been able to change what happened to Karen. I think this only because there were so many people already trying to help her. Her friends, family, doctors, business associates. Nothing helped her. I don't think she was able to see the trouble she was in. And I think she truly felt she did not need help from anybody.
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Mariah Andrews
CERTIFIED SILVER MEMBER
29/Lesbian M2F TS/Nevada. Longtime Carpenters Fan.
Posts: 49
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Post by Mariah Andrews on Feb 27, 2005 22:10:32 GMT -5
Well, I admit that I could use help sometimes. My eating disorder is that I eat too dang much and need to shed some poundage!
(Yes, I know you're talking about the more famous Mariah- who I named myself after.)
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