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Post by karen69roland on Jan 8, 2005 9:29:25 GMT -5
Ok, I don't want the posts to go too far from the topic, but, it's interesting..., Dave, where are you?
Two things..., the songs did go in a more pop direction, but, to me, not Karen's drumming..., she was just more delicate(just like her physical appearance).
..., also, I think a good reason why Richard used studio drummers is because he wanted to save time and let Karen concentrate on the vocal sessions..., 'cause Hal Blaine is not necessary a harder hitter(or more Pop) on the drums..., listen to his drumming with Steely Dan, he can be pretty jazzy(he was versatile). Richard had too choose someone who could simulate Karen's drumming style because Karen was still the one who played the songs live. ..., Cubby O'Brien was different. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Jan 8, 2005 11:56:14 GMT -5
I recall reading (I think it was in the Ray Coleman book) that Richard employed a studio drummer because he wanted beefier drum sound than Karen could provide. He stated that Karen was just a little lady and couldn't hit the drums with as much force as Hal Blaine could. I also remember reading (once again I beleive it was in the Coleman book) that Karen would teach Hal her drum patterns for each song. Thus the drum work on the albums would sound exactly the same as what was heard in live performances. You are right Enigma, maybe Karen's drumming didn't become anymore intricate as her drumming from the very begininng was well developed. I also agree that her style did not become softer or more delicate, but just more so reflects the style of music they came to record after "Close To You" became a huge hit. I say this because if you listen to her drum work on the "Strike Up The Band Medley" from the "LIve At The Palladium" disc Karen displays a somewhat more aggressive side of her drum abilities, or anyway as aggressive as Karen could get. Also her drumming on "I Got Rhythm" is bit stronger - and wow she does a great job on this song. On a song like "Yesterday Once More" you just aren't going to do a marching band drum pattern or an off-beat jazz timing. A song like YOM calls for something more delicate and understated. p.s. Roland in to answer your question about Dave - he says he will peak in from time to time.
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Post by enigma on Jan 8, 2005 13:03:52 GMT -5
I recall reading (I think it was in the Ray Coleman book) that Richard employed a studio drummer because he wanted beefier drum sound than Karen could provide. He stated that Karen was just a little lady and couldn't hit the drums with as much force as Hal Blaine could. I also remember reading (once again I beleive it was in the Coleman book) that Karen would teach Hal her drum patterns for each song. Thus the drum work on the albums would sound exactly the same as what was heard in live performances. You are right Enigma, maybe Karen's drumming didn't become anymore intricate as her drumming from the very begininng was well developed. I also agree that her style did not become softer or more delicate, but just more so reflects the style of music they came to record after "Close To You" became a huge hit. I say this because if you listen to her drum work on the "Strike Up The Band Medley" from the "LIve At The Palladium" disc Karen displays a somewhat more aggressive side of her drum abilities, or anyway as aggressive as Karen could get. Also her drumming on "I Got Rhythm" is bit stronger - and wow she does a great job on this song. On a song like "Yesterday Once More" you just aren't going to do a marching band drum pattern or an off-beat jazz timing. A song like YOM calls for something more delicate and understated. p.s. Roland in to answer your question about Dave - he says he will peak in from time to time. Yes that was somewhat of what I was saying when I referenced Richard. Hal Blaine also said in an interview that dispite the fact that Karen was a good drummer she lacked the knowledge of the technical side of studio drumming and Hal being somewhat of a veteren (he drummed on a number of #1 hits as well as Rolands credits) in the studio was the logical choice to help commercialise the Carpenters sound. Also according to Hal, Richard did not hire him ( Jack Daugherty and or A&M apparently did) he (Richard) and the Carpenter family were actually against the idea of having him drum because Karen was the drummer in the band and they felt she could do as good a job as Hal in the studio. Remember that Offering was considered a flop by commercial standards and in many interviews both Richard and Karen have said that they were desperate for a commercial breakthrough not just because of their perfectionism but fear that the label would drop them if they did not garner significantly higher sales which is another reason why they caved in and let Hal do alot of the drumming. I do think Roland has a point with the fact that it would be an asset to have a versetile drummer like Hal that could drum in different styles because the Carpenter delved in such a variety of musical styles when they made their records and a versetile drummer would definately be an asset and also easier for Karen to teach if she needed to. Rick I agree Karen was capable of hard agressive drumming but she was a small woman and I doubt she could sustain such a style for an entire concert or album she would likely damage the tendons in her hands and wrists and have to quit drumming alot sooner than she did (I know thats not why she quit drumming by the way) BTW Rick since this is off the topic can you possible place these posts on a new thread without deleting them as Roland said this is an interesting topic but does not fit in the favorites topic. Perhaps under the title Karens Changing Drumming Styles Thanks &^ *%
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Post by karen69roland on Jan 8, 2005 15:02:12 GMT -5
Don't worry Enigma..., the topic will come back..., it's just fun to get away a bit and, then, come back..., feel free to talk about what you want...
..., if you really want to talk in depth about Karen's drumming(well, I think we just did)..., just open a new thread. [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by karen69roland on Jan 8, 2005 17:50:37 GMT -5
Very interesting, Dave.
It's a thing that comes to mind, once in a while... A Karen Carpenter solo album without Karen playing the drums on it.
..., Hmmm..., strange..., very strange. ;D [glow=red,2,300][/glow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow][shadow=red,left,300]Roland Chayer[/shadow][shadow=red,left,300] [/shadow]
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Post by Rick Henry on Jan 8, 2005 20:16:59 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Jan 8, 2005 21:03:25 GMT -5
Just a note I tranferred most of the posts from this thread which had to do with karen's changing drum styles to a new thread titled "Karen's Changing Drum Styles". If you wish to post further on the topic of Karen's drum techniques click on the link below. carponline.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=karlc&action=display&thread=1105235017Other than that we can resume the original topic of "Favorites". The following is a reminder of what the topic was originally about: Which are your favorite Carpenters songs in the different categories listed below? Country Dark Upbeat 80's Love Song Remake Hit single Guitar solo Jazz Drum solo
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