Photo of Karen and Richard on background screen

[cam83]

Hi All,
This photo of Karen and Richard on the background screen, looks around the same time era of when THE SINGLES 1969-1973 inner photo was taken. Also, do you think that if THE SINGLES 1969-1973 had had a beautiful pic of Karen and Richard on it, the front cover, that it would have sold better? I read that that is what Richard thought, that it looked like a dammned tombstone. and that it should have sold more copies than it did, although it did reach 7 times platinum in the USA which is awesome. This is the album that first got me hooked onto the Carpenters music, back in Spring of 1988, when I was 16.

My thoughts,
Cam

[Federico Cruz]

cam83 said:

This photo of Karen and Richard on the background screen, looks around the same time era of when THE SINGLES 1969-1973 inner photo was taken. Also, do you think that if THE SINGLES 1969-1973 had had a beautiful pic of Karen and Richard on it, the front cover, that it would have sold better? I read that that is what Richard thought, that it looked like a dammned tombstone. and that it should have sold more copies than it did, although it did reach 7 times platinum in the USA which is awesome....
Cam

She is using the same jacket, but Rich is using a different shirt.
About the album Singles 69-73, I think that the selection was correct, is a serious cover, and is similar to Jesuschrist Superstar soundtrack album .

[BethMosior]

as you can tell its one of my most favorite photo's of Karen & Richard LOL I really love the way they look, the casual, taking it easy, your family taking a photo look

[enigma]

I heard Richards comment on this as well and think he should get an ego check (No offense). The record went 7 times platinum what more does he want? Album covers are fine and dandy but it is what is inside...the music that sells a record not the cover. Look at the Beatles their album was white with a little Beatles written on the lower right and it is one of the biggest selling records of all time, Metallica had just a solid black cover and again sold millions and the list goes on and on. I do not think a photo like the beautiful one on this background would have pushed this record's sales past what it has sold.

I do also love this background photo both Karen and Richard look healthy and happy.

[Rick Henry]

enigma said:

I heard Richards comment on this as well and think he should get an ego check (No offense). The record went 7 times platinum what more does he want? Album covers are fine and dandy but it is what is inside...the music that sells a record not the cover. Look at the Beatles their album was white with a little Beatles written on the lower right and it is one of the biggest selling records of all time, Metallica had just a solid black cover and again sold millions and the list goes on and on. I do not think a photo like the beautiful one on this background would have pushed this record's sales past what it has sold.

I do also love this background photo both Karen and Richard look healthy and happy.

Boy do I ever agree with you here Enigma. "Singles 69-73" was such a huge selling album. I'm sure that if Universal wouldn't have taken it off the market it probably would be closer to 9 or 10 million units sold by now. On that note, I don't understand why Universal even discontinued the Carpenters' biggest selling album. Carpenters were on their way to a Diamond certification for "Singles". About the cover I really like it. It has a certain class about it, when you see it you just know it's a classic.

[beaner]

Hey Enigma,

What was Richard's comment?

[enigma]

Hi Beaner
His comment was that The Singles did not sell as well as he thinks it should have because of the album cover "The whole thing was my idea. The dark cover, with the logo, having it look kind of understated. It almost looks like a d**n tombstone." was his exact comment to which I disagree with Richard on.
This is not the first time Richard has been dissatisfied with an album cover when the Now And Then record came out Richard was furious at the fact that the trim on the red Ferarai(sp) was covering Karens face and demanded the album be recalled reissued with a different cover A&M did not go for it so Richard had to just get over it and there are numerous examples of Richard dissatisfaction with the way things were done, recorded etc. He was pretty tempormental especially when things did not go according to his plan or vision and to a lesser degree Karen was the same way.

Rick
I agree it makes no sense to pull such a massively successful record from your catalogue I am sure it was still selling when they pulled it. I also would have liked The Singles to have achieved diamond staus I have no doubt it would have; Universal dropped the ball on that one.
PS why is my quote censored is the d word a swear I mean Richard used it; it is not that bad is it? Maybe this is another sXXXXX incident.lol

[Rob813]

Ok, it's time for Rob's two cents. I think that Richard has been critical of their album covers because of the way he was treated by A&M. After they became successful, he felt he had the clout to have a say-so regarding their album covers. I agree with him regarding the Song For You cover reminding one of a Valentine's card. Much of this is discussed in Ray Coleman's book. Many of the execs in charge at A&M were ashamed of Karen and Richard; and they knew it! Who wouldn't be self-conscious about that!

As far as an artistic creator wanting to tinker with their work, all you have to do is look at George Lucas, the director of the Star Wars movies. He has been tinkering with them, constantly trying to improve on his original material. Steven Spielberg has done the same. Richard has the right to tinker with his music. I don't think he has intrinsically altered anything so that it is not true to the original concepts. As technology has improved, he has sought to tweak here and there to mostly good effect.

I agree that he has been a difficult person and has probably made a number of enemies along the way. To one degree or another, most extraordinarily creative people are this way. I'm not defending him. It's just that we have not walked in his shoes. How can we be fair in judging him. The enormous legacy that he and Karen have created is testimony to what they did right. I think they did most things right.

[Rick Henry]

Dave said:

At this point, one would wonder why Richard still searches for "perfection", when he should just be satisfied with the strength of the legacy. If he wants to remaster everything to remove technical flaws and noise, please do so. We can live with that. But we believe that what he did and how he did it 35 years ago will stand the test of time.
It has so far.

I think Richard doesn't have much choice on that one. There is so much demand for Carpenters music from Universal in U.S., Japan, UK and other parts of the world. The record companies want to continually release Carpenters compilations and pay Richard to remaster and remix these songs.

[Moe]

I never realized that the Singles CD was removed from distribution. I would imagine it is gone so that there is no competition with the new compilations that are being released. The Singles 69-73 had there biggest hits on it, for the most part, and those are the songs that people connect with the Carpenters.

[enigma]

I think we can judge Richard from a fans perspective. I do not know what it is like to be Richard nor do I care to know. I comment on the product that Richard presents to me as a fan I feel I can do so and I am sure he appreciates the feedback. Like Dave I feel Richard (and George and Steven for that matter) did such a good job the first time that there is no need to improve on it. Richard is entitled to keep remixing if he wishes its his music now that Karen is gone but as a fan if I do not agree with what Richard does or says I am entitled to state my view on the matter; it is just an opinion that has its supporters and detractors. I am just a fan of the original album mixes I fell in love with these songs and remixing them does not make me love them more or less than I already do. The Carpenters music is timeless so remixing is not necessary as far as I am concerned. I will admit that on the double CD of Gold I own the new remixes make the songs sound crisp and new and are almost different versions of the songs when compared to the originals. I just hope the original non remixed versions get reissued now and then so people can enjoy Carpenters music as it was originally intended to be heard when it first came out.

Rob
You made a good point about A&Ms treatment of the Carpenters they not only paid A&M's bills in the early 1970's but they made the small record company rich and a major player in the record business that is nothing to be ashamed of. A&M owes the Carpenters a debt of gratitude for that. Richard did see the trim covering Karens face as a slap in the face to Karen and that is what made him angry about it he wanted a different angle for the cover shot so that Karens entire face could be seen like his was but the record had already been pressed and A&M went with it as is (apparently Richard only noticed this problem when the album hit the stores and he looked at it more closely.)

[Rick Henry]

I feel the same way Enigma, the remixes don't make me love the music any more or less. although it is nice to have a new mix that is slightly different, it gives an old song a new face, which can be enjoyable sometimes.

As far as Richard remixing and remastering as much as he does, I really don't think it's 100% his choice. Record companies all over the world are asking for remastered and remixed editions of these songs, it's all about demand for the product.

I believe all the original mixes are available on the remastered editions of the CD releases of each original album. They are remastered for sound enhancement, but nothing has been changed as far as the music itself.

[Rick Henry]

since I change the background pic on the forum regularly I just wanted to post the picture we've been talking about.

[Mariah Andrews]

This is an interesting cover that I see right now. Of course, I was offine for a while. I do remember seeing this picture on this campy Alt-rock tribute to the Carpenters. I did ask about that album one time.

[Rob813]

I have noticed a dramatic change in "Mr Guder" on the Carpenters Gold CD. Certain lyrics like "you reflect the company image, you maintain their (rules to live by), shine your shoes, let's keep that neat haircut, now that you're wearing a (coat and tie). I always mistook the lyrics in parenthesis as (rules to refine) and a (golden tie). I never really could hear them until the Gold CD. Also the flute solo fadeout at the end is much clearer than before.

While we're on this subject during "Maybe It's You" Karen sings something about the sea which I could never quite make out. It's just before the waves of velveteen. It's something about the ocean's haze. Is that correct. This has always and continues to stump me. Please help!!!

[Rick Henry]

Mariah said:

This is an interesting cover that I see right now. Of course, I was offine for a while. I do remember seeing this picture on this campy Alt-rock tribute to the Carpenters. I did ask about that album one time.

Hi mariah, for some reason I like the picture for the "If I Were a Carpenter" CD. I really like Dishwalla's recording of "It's Going To Take Sometime" and Sonic Youth's "Superstar".

[BethMosior]

I think what the words are Rob in the song " Maybe It's You " is ' Rising On The Shore The Ocean Came' I hope that helps, and I can really hear the words better on the GOLD CD and the photo you have up now Rick always made me laugh with joy, I keep thinking that Karen would get a kick out of it, and would have been thrilled that the youth of today admired what she and Richard worked so hard on and were so proud of that they would want to make that ' If I Were A Carpenter' CD :oWOW but I really do love the one you had on before it puts a BIG smile on my face

[enigma]

Yes Beth you are correct
I am posting lyrics to both Mr Guder and Maybe Its You just to clarify what is said in each song hope this further claify's things

Mr. Guder
Richard Carpenter

Mister Guder, say Mister Guder,
May I have a moment with you,
For there is something I've got to say
and please don't let it scare you away.

Mister Guder, say Mister Guder,
I have seen you go through a day,
You're ev'ry-thing a robot lives for,
walk in at night and roll out the door at five.

You reflect the company image,
you maintain their rules to live by,
Shine your shoes, let's keep a neat haircut
now that you're wearing a coat and tie.

Mister Guder, say Mister Guder,
someday soon you may realize
you've blown your life just playing a game
where no one wins but ev'ry one stays the same.


Maybe It's You
Richard Carpenter

Maybe it's you, maybe it's me
Maybe it's just the constant rhythm of the sea
Maybe it's just that I've never been the kind
who can pass a lucky penny by

Maybe it's wise, maybe it's not
Maybe it's you who brought the caring I forgot
Isn't it nice to talk about the special way
that you smile whenever I'm around

Rising on the shore the ocean came
Walks along the waves of velveteen
His only thought was love for me

Couldn't we stay or must you go
Couldn't we stay and watch the splashing rocks we throw
Only a fool would want to leave the paradise
that I find whenever you're around
Only a fool

Isn't it nice to talk about the special way
that you smile whenever I'm around

Rising on the shore the ocean came
Walks along the waves of velveteen
His only thought was love for me

Couldn't we stay and watch the splashing rocks we throw
Only a fool would want to leave the paradise
that I find whenever you're around
Only a fool.