Mariah Andrews
CERTIFIED GOLD MEMBER
I'm 29/Transsexual M2F/Lesbian from Southern NV. Now a first-time author on the market!
Posts: 113
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Post by Mariah Andrews on Oct 5, 2004 13:57:04 GMT -5
I beleive there was one Led Zeppelin performance with Jason Bonham playing in place of his late father. But it still isn't the same.
Speaking of the Beatles, Ringo's son Zak plays for The Who, took over from where his "Uncle Keith" was. There was no relationship but Keith Moon and Ringo Starr were close friends.
I did watch the "Concert For George" with George's son Dhani playing in it. Now Dhani looks just like George but still, it wasn't the same. There were a few clips that showed Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and Dhani Harrison on the same screen playing. And to me, it's still a Beatles performance, as the two surviving Beatles were performing live togther that night.
Now, if Karen had a daughter, would it be the same if she and her uncle Richard started a band?
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 5, 2004 18:05:58 GMT -5
...if Karen had a daughter, would it be the same if she and her uncle Richard started a band? Rick and Enigma, why not?. If one of Richard's daughters follow a singer carreer, anybody should compare her with Karen... I much prefered that instead of Dionne Warwick and Dusty Springfield singing in "Time" album, Richard would elect voices like Akiko or Jenny Sinclair to recreate the voice of Karen. And that's the line to follow for the unfinished Carpenters songs. I'm not saying Richard must team with any other female singer, only to complete the unfinished songs.
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Post by Rob813 on Oct 5, 2004 18:42:39 GMT -5
How can I get a download of the other unreleased songs Karen recorded when in New York? After 21 years it doesn't appear likely they'll be released by Richard and Universal. It seems they would have done so by now. I read that one song was sung in such a high key that Karen must have been clutching her throat to have sung those notes. Other than that, I haven't heard much else about them. Except of course all of your superlatives about them.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 5, 2004 21:15:42 GMT -5
Hey Rob, the unreleased solo songs are on most of the download sites. They're fairly easy to find. I'm optimistic about them being released one of these days. I only feel that way because so many people are interested in them.
Hi Federico, my feelings on that is that you just can not replace a classic like Karen Carpenter. Akiko and Jenny are good singers, but they are not Karen. I feel any unfinished songs meant for Karen to sing should be left alone, it just wouldn't be right if another singer went in and finished them. If Richard should work with other vocalists it's best to do new recordings with new vocalist singing in their own style.
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 5, 2004 22:41:47 GMT -5
You just can not replace a classic like Karen Carpenter. Akiko and Jenny are good singers, but they are not Karen. If Richard should work with other vocalists it's best to do new recordings with new vocalist singing in their own style. You are ofuscated. I'm not sugesting Richard must appear saying: Hey!, here are the new Carpenters and this is the sustitute of Karen. No, only to complete the ten or twelve songs buried in the vaults of A&M or Richard's house to recreate and dream with Karen's voice. Do you prefer Richard destroy these tapes? I really prefer Richard doesn't team with any other singer. I won't buy it....
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 5, 2004 22:54:25 GMT -5
It's really interesting to hear how similar is Jenny's singing to Karen, but, to buy another copy of the classics Carpenters songs?. No. It's better to do this with the unfinished songs. I'm talking of those tracks that doesn't contain the voice of Karen! I guess I just lost my head! I can dream, can't I?
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Post by enigma on Oct 6, 2004 7:01:07 GMT -5
Ok Federico Cruz this is my take on your suggestion. I love the Carpenters for Karen. Its Karens voice and mutiple other talents that make me love the Carpenters. I have little interest in Richard he is not the reason I listen to Carpenters music. Back to Karen. Karen is truely one of a kind no sound alike could replace her, capture her essence or affect me like Karen: Karen is unique. Federico if Richard were to put any sound alike or other artist on the unfinished tracks I would not buy them so he may as well scrap these as far as I am concerned if there is no Karen vocal present. To me it would be the same as bringing Julian Lennon in to create a John Lennon vocal for the sake of finishing a Beatles song. Julian is a dead ringer for John voice wise but he is not John just like Jenny is not Karen dispite her close resemblace voice wise(I don't happen to think she is even close). These people simply are irreplacable and unique no ands ifs or buts. If you feel that a replacement vocalist for Karen is appropriate to get these songs released thats fine but I for one love Karen and will accept no replacement for this unique monumental talent. Unfinished songs should remain unfinished.
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Post by JIM on Oct 6, 2004 7:33:57 GMT -5
HI Rick and Emigma! I do agree that replacing Karens voice is simply out of the question. I think what Federico is sugesting is that if there are unfinshed tracks in the vaults that are missing backing vocals, other vocalits could be used to complete the tracks. One of my favoriote songs is Kiss Me and that song contains the voice of Siade Garrett. Also the voice of Carolyn Dennis has been used for backing vocals on Passages. In a letter from Siade Garrett that is posted at A&M Corner, she mentions working with Richard on several ghost recordings after Karen death. If the other recordings are anything like Kiss Me, I would love to hear those to. JIM
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 6, 2004 13:19:55 GMT -5
... Federico is sugesting... that if there are unfinished tracks in the vaults that are missing backing vocals, others vocalists could be used to complete the tracks. One of my favorite songs is Kiss Me and that song contains the voice of Siedah Garrett. Also the voice of Carolyn Dennis has been used for backing vocals on Passage. In a letter from Siedah Garrett that is posted at A&M Corner, she mentions working with Richard on several ghost recordings after Karen death. If the other recordings are anything like Kiss Me, I would love to hear those to. JIM Right!
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 6, 2004 13:28:54 GMT -5
...if Richard were to put any sound alike or other artist on the unfinished tracks I would not buy them....To me, it would be the same as bringing Julian Lennon in to create a John Lennon vocal for the sake of finishing a Beatles song. Julian is a dead ringer for John voice wise but he is not John just like Jenny is not Karen dispite her close resemblace voice wise.. If you feel that a replacement vocalist for Karen is appropriate to get these songs released thats fine but I for one love Karen and will accept no replacement for this unique monumental talent. Unfinished songs should remain unfinished. I do...I would buy it. "Unfinished songs should remain unfinished".[/quote] Never, I want to hear them...
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Post by cam83 on Oct 6, 2004 20:09:07 GMT -5
Hi All, What an interesting topic. You know, I have always wanted Richard to team up with a variety of female singers, and do songs in the style of a "Carpenters" record. I mean, Karen is gone. There will not be much left that Richard will release...even though, anything with Karen's vocals have got to be great! So, I don't have a problem with Richard teaming up with other singers. I do and did love Richard teaming up with Akiko Kobayashi, and love listening to her CITY OF ANGELS album. It reminds me so much of Karen. Same with Jenny Sinclair, her singing reminds me of Karen. I know it's not Karen! But nonetheless, it reminds me of Karen's style. And I love Karen's singing but I will alway love other's interpretations of Karen's and Richard's music.
My thoughts, Cameron
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Post by JIM on Oct 7, 2004 9:58:02 GMT -5
Hey Cam! As much as I love Akiko's City Of Angels, I still find it odd, the vocal match is just so close! I have played this album for people who were not experts like we are and they thought it was Karen until I told them. My favorite track is Only The Angel Know, I wish Karen had been the one to record it.
Hey Enigma. Geez I hope I don't sound critical here, it is not my intention. You mention that you really don't care about Richard but without Richard there never would have been a Karen for us to love and vice versa. Karens talent would have gone undiscovered had it not been for the ground work done by Richard with the trio and Spectrum. However by 1980 when she recorded the solo album I do believe that she could have made it on her own without Richard. I think after Richard heard how great she sounded without his influence,pushed to have the album shelved because its success would have made him obsolete. I would have said run sister run! You worked hard and you deserve all the success that comes from your project! JIM
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 7, 2004 11:12:06 GMT -5
Hi All, What an interesting topic. You know, I have always wanted Richard to team up with a variety of female singers, and do songs in the style of a "Carpenters" record. I mean, Karen is gone. There will not be much left that Richard will release...even though, anything with Karen's vocals have got to be great! So, I don't have a problem with Richard teaming up with other singers. I do and did love Richard teaming up with Akiko Kobayashi, and love listening to her CITY OF ANGELS album. It reminds me so much of Karen. Same with Jenny Sinclair, her singing reminds me of Karen. I know it's not Karen! But nonetheless, it reminds me of Karen's style. And I love Karen's singing but I will alway love other's interpretations of Karen's and Richard's music. My thoughts, Cameron :DBack to what I think Federico was saying. I believe he was trying to say that he thinks Richard should employ other vocalists (who sound like Karen) to finish any unfinished songs in the vaults. I think Federico means finishing as in providing the lead vocal. My take on this statement is that for example if there was not any lead vocal on "Trying To Get The Feeling Again" that Richard should have recruited someone like Akiko to record a Karen Carpenter soundalike vocal for this song (that was originally meant for Karen to sing). I just don't agree with that. If in case there are some unfinished songs in the vault (say from the 70's) that do not have a lead vocal, I feel they should remain as such - unfinished. Or if Richard were to want to finish them than he should employ a vocalist to sing these songs - but in their own vocal style - not in Karen's style. I feel it would be somewhat disrespectful to hire a singer to sound like Karen, on a track which was initially recorded with the intention of Karen singing it. This is my take on it. I guess I'm just protective of Karen and her legacy. As for Karen making it on her own. I think that as early as 1973 she could have branched off and continued successfully.
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Post by enigma on Oct 7, 2004 12:54:26 GMT -5
Hi Jim OK first of all because I do not care for Richard does not mean I discount his contributions to the Carpenters. Richard was brilliant in his song selection, his production techniques and his arranging. I will say this his arrangements and production are not the reason I listen to the Carpenters it is Karen and only Karen that makes me buy Carpenter records. I love Karen I do not care for Richard as far as I am concerned he is nothing without her.
Now Jim this Karen would be nothing without Richard, Karen needed Richard to have a career, there would be no Karen without Richard is hogwash as far as I am concerned. You are not alone in your view Jim alot of people feel there would be no Karen without Richard. No way man! Karen had an incredible voice that would have been discovered sooner or later it was an inevidability. Yes Richard did "discover" Karens vocal ability but that was because he spent the most time with her; he was her brother after all; if he had not "discovered" her voice someone else would have. Karen has proven over and over that she can tackle any song, style of music and I believe she could work with any producer out there. What further solidify's my view on Karen making it without Richard is the fact that Herb Alpert said he signed the Carpenters based on Karens voice not Richards abilities and Richard himself said that if the Carpenters were not signed to a record deal it would only have been a matter of time before Karen was signed as a solo act. I respect that there are Richard fans out there and alot of people appreciate his contributions to the Carpenters and to some degree I do as well but I just think it is ridiculous to say an incredible voice and talent like Karens could not have made it on her own. Richard and Karen did however make a magical phenomenal team. BTW I hope this does not offend Jim but I do get a little upset when people give Richard too much credit and Karen not enough and you can see why I feel that way. Rick with all due respect I think you may be selling Karen short saying that she could only made it on her own after 1973 I feel she could have made it from day 1. &^
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Post by JIM on Oct 7, 2004 18:18:19 GMT -5
Hey Enigma its cool. Its hard to say how history would have unfolded without Richard. I think that you are totally right in that Richards talents could only take the duo so far and if it had not been for Karens phenomenomal voice Ticket to ride might have been there first and last album. I respect your views completely.
Rick! you keep taking me out of contextLOL! I would only entertain the thought of completing an unfinished track if there was a complete lead vocal by Karen to work with. If I understand correctly most of what became VOTH was made up of unfinished tracks which were completed by the O.K. Chorale. I am hardly qualified to critisize Richards artistic choices but I think a lot of the material from VOTH would have sounded better without the Chorale and just Karen or backing vocals by Sieda Garrett or Carolyn Dennis for a more traditional sounding Carpenters production. It would have been a loss to not have the material from VOTH heart to enjoy just because some of the tracks were from unfinised tracks. I sometimes look at that buried treasures list and the titles sound like they would sound so great if cmpleted but only Richard can make that call and if there is not a complete Karen lead vocal from start to finish, I totally agree with you in that they should remain buried. JIM
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 7, 2004 19:06:20 GMT -5
#$ Hi Jim, sorry if it seems I misunderstood you. I'm with you here. It would have been a shame if the songs from "Voice Of The Heart" or songs like "Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again" were left unfinished. I am all for Richard completing unfinished songs. As a matter of fact I think Richard should use his own voice for the backup vocals as his voice mixes really well with Karen's. I hope that Richard will finish more unreleased songs. I was overjoyed when "Karen Carpenter" was released and then so very happy with the release of "As Time Goes By". What I don't agree with is taking an instrumental track from the vaults intended for Karen and mixing it with a Karen Carpenter soundalike vocalist. Anyway it's interesting how we have kept this conversation going for days now. I think we all somewhat have misunderstood each others ideas here. But that's okay, that's what makes us human, it's what makes us interesting individuals. we all have a different viewpoint. But the one thing we all agree on is that we love Karen. &^
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Post by Federico Cruz on Oct 7, 2004 19:25:10 GMT -5
... that... if there was not any lead vocal...Richard should have recruited someone like Akiko to record a Karen Carpenter soundalike vocal.... I just don't agree with that. If in case there are some unfinished songs in the vault... that do not have a lead vocal, I feel they should remain as such - unfinished. Or, if Richard were to want to finish them, than he should employ a vocalist to sing these songs - but in their own vocal style - not in Karen's style. I feel it would be somewhat disrespectful to hire a singer to sound like Karen.... This is my take on it. I guess I'm just (too much, I think) protective of Karen and her legacy. A kind of sacrilege, perhaps?
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Peteruk
CERTIFIED GOLD MEMBER
Posts: 148
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Post by Peteruk on Oct 14, 2004 18:12:52 GMT -5
We seem to have hit on some long term Carpenters fans opinons / myths .... Never understand the Richard or Karen ....more vital ...more important debate ....just simple without each other ....no Carpenters ....none of their classic sound & music etc Both could & probably would have been successes on their own or working in different media ....but together is the key ....to everything we have Also Alpert & Moss never heard Karen's vocals on Carpenters 1969 demo tape ....just listened to Benediction , Richard's lead on Wonderful Parade and another overdubbed choral demo ....Alpert just loved their harmony / overdubbed layered sound .....later Alpert described Karen's voice as totally natural and in your lap emotional vocals .... Peter
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