Carpenters' Sgt. Peppers

[Rick Henry]

The release of "Horizon" caused many music industry insiders to reassess their viewpoint on the Carpenters. This album was a huge leap forward in sound, technique and style. The Carpenter reached a new level of maturity with "Horizon". The arrangements were far more complex and intrinsically detailed than anything else Carpenters had done in the past (and for that matter anything that followed... except "Passage" and Karen's solo album). The seamless blending of vocals and instruments was mind boggling. It was all put together with perfection. And on top of it all Karen Carpenter was at the peak of her vocal strength.

Some people were so impressed by "Horizon" that it has been referred to as the Carpenters' Sgt. Peppers. Even Jerry Moss (the M in A&M) was so taken by the album that he sent Richard Carpenter a letter congratulating him on his outstanding musical arrangements. This was a big accomplishment as Moss was not fond of Carpenters' music. Moss even mentioned that he was very proud to have a voice as fabulous as Karen's on the A&M label.

Carpenters were once again considered trendsetters in the music industry, a tag which had eluded them since 1971.

As a conversation, I am interested to hear what the rest of you think about "Horizon" being tagged as the Carpenters' Sgt. Peppers.

For those of you who don't know. Referring to an album as being someone's Sgt. Peppers is a reference of being a particular artists finest moment, an achievement of technical and artist ability.

So what do you think?

[enigma]

I do agree with this statement Horizon is a brilliant record it is producing at among its finest it is the best record the Carpenters recorded as far as technical and production values including the near perfect vocals of Karen. It is not literally to be compared to the real pepper record but by Ricks definition it fits this record to a T

[Rick Henry]

Sept 14, 2009 14:10:19 GMT -5 enigma said:

I do agree with this statement Horizon is a brilliant record it is producing at among its finest it is the best record the Carpenters recorded as far as technical and production values including the near perfect vocals of Karen. It is not literally to be compared to the real pepper record but by Ricks definition it fits this record to a T

I agree with what you say Enigma. This thread is in no way to say "Horizon" is comparable to Sgt. Peppers as is worded. But to comment on how many people including critics and fans alike consider "Horizon" to be Carpenters' finest musical moment.

What I find most interesting is Jerry Moss' response. He never cared for Carpenters but was impressed enough from this album to praise them for it.

[timo]

I totally agree with the "Sgt Pepper classification" but in my opinion Horizon compares to The Beatles' Abbey Road. That album was Fab Four's finest achievement in many ways: production, arrangements, vocals, songwriting - all parts really "coming together" for their final show of strength. Horizon has that same touch of true quality music!

[Rick Henry]

Sept 15, 2009 23:32:35 GMT -5 timo said:

I totally agree with the "Sgt Pepper classification" but in my opinion Horizon compares to The Beatles' Abbey Road. That album was Fab Four's finest achievement in many ways: production, arrangements, vocals, songwriting - all parts really "coming together" for their final show of strength. Horizon has that same touch of true quality music!

Hi Timo... as for personal favorites go we all have a different favorite when it comes to music and we're entitled to that. My favorite Beatles album is the White Album, I find that to be their finest and most enthralling work. Although historically speaking it is Sgt Peppers that is considered their best work overall and has been commonly used as a representation of quality music.

As for Beatles my three favorites are the White Album, Abbey Road and Sgt Peppers, I felt this was their most creative era. I also like Rubber Soul and Revolver.

[enigma]

Just to make an off topic comment here I would say Abbey Road was the Beatles at their best it was a group effort start to finish and they went out at their best. The White Album while it had some fine music it was eratic and far from a group effort members were absent from many of the recordings even their more famous songs (one even temporarly quit the band). The White Album was a collection of solo Beatles music for the most part they were beginning to break up at that point and not functioning as a unit. For Abbey Road they did come together as a unit for one last time and put 100% into the album they were not doing this during the White Album and it did show in the final product case in point Revelution #9 was not close to Lennons finest work and this is coming from a Lennen Fan I agree with George Harrison when he said if it was one disk record it would have be alot greater than it was. Rick alot of people agree with you and cite this as the Beatles finest effort but as a Beatles/solos Fan I cannot completely agree with that dispite the fact it had some great music on it. I actually do not rank Pepper as my favorite Beatles record I tend to agree with Harrisons opinion and also say Rubber Soul and Revolver are my favorites in addition to Abbey Road. Just my opinion.

I also agree with Horizon being like Abbey Road in that it is a quality effort top to bottom it was each artists Technical acievement both sound incredible and were finely produced and both are the artists at their best in my opinion.

Now Rick you mentioned being surprised at Jerry Moss' opinion of Horizon and I would tend to agree but at the same time Moss is human and has ears and they are not painted on (if I may use a term another musician used describing record company execs) so he would know and acknowlege good quality music when he heard it even if he did not like the artist producing it. He also may have been warming up to the Carpenters if anything when he saw the money they were making him who knows but good is good and few can deny Horizons quality and greatness as a record not even Jerry Moss.

[Rick Henry]

My comment here was that historically Sgt Peppers is considered the Beatles' best work. That is something that has been touted for a very long time. Whether or not it is a favorite of yours is a different story. I believe Sgt Peppers has achieved this tag is because of it's diversity and it was the first album in which the Beatles showed a huge move into a new and different sound from the early "beat" sound. That's not to say that Revolver and Rubber Soul didn't show a progression in sound, as they did show growth in the Beatles' sound. Sgt Peppers just took it to the next level. Sgt Peppers was really the first of it kind and inspired quite a few musicians in the late 60's. Sgt Peppers helped redefine the sound of popular music in the late 60's and onto today. Had Abbey Road been recorded first it would have acquired the same acclaim as Sgt Peppers.

Either way both albums are noted as being amongst the best works of any musical entity of all-time.

In my comment on Jerry Moss, I did not say I was surprised I said I found it most interesting. I thought it was a great thing that he finally came around to enjoying Carpenters' music after not really caring for them for the first five years.

[smoothie2]

:Dinteresting input by all....I can't comment very much as far as the Beatles' albums and etc., because I'm not that familiar with all their albums. I do understand what you mean Rick as far as comparing Horizon to the Sgt.Peppers. So, I'm a neutral as far as any comparing goes Beatles and Carps.
?? I do agree that Horizon compared with the C's other records, surely stands out as a cut above their other efforts. Thinking back to when I was a teenager and Horizon came out, I especially was thrilled by all the songs it included of course, especially Only Yesterday and Desperado. Even looking at the record that I still have today, and listening to it, it still has it's own kind of personality.
Hearing the beautiful poetic Aurora and Eventide especially attracted me back then and now because I always liked poetry. Hearing
all those songs blows me away. The outstanding vocals and each song really makes the whole album more sophisticated I guess I could say than any of their other works.
The Looks of the album cover and art work inside and out also is a cut above the others I think.
I may have more to say about it, but those are my thoughts for now.

[cinscorp]

Rick, as you know, "Horizon" is tops on my list. Very closely followed by Passage, Karen Carpenter, and then A Song For You.

Horizon has a sound quality that still sounds amazing to me. The depth, range and clarity of Karen's voice always keeps me in complete awe of her mesmerizing vocal talent. The maturity, the soul, the control, range, emotion all coming together so perfectly. My only complaint with it, as with the majority of their albums is that it was too short. But as is, that just keeps me wishing there were more and often creates another listen (to at least select tracks).

I also read that they were treated differently by a number of people at A&M when Horizon was unveiled. They obviously earned a whole new respect from people other than Jerry Moss. And critics.

[enigma]

Sept 16, 2009 14:27:38 GMT -5 Rick Henry said:

My comment here was that historically Sgt Peppers is considered the Beatles' best work. That is something that has been touted for a very long time. Whether or not it is a favorite of yours is a different story. I believe Sgt Peppers has achieved this tag is because of it's diversity and it was the first album in which the Beatles showed a huge move into a new and different sound from the early "beat" sound. That's not to say that Revolver and Rubber Soul didn't show a progression in sound, as they did show growth in the Beatles' sound. Sgt Peppers just took it to the next level. Sgt Peppers was really the first of it kind and inspired quite a few musicians in the late 60's. Sgt Peppers helped redefine the sound of popular music in the late 60's and onto today. Had Abbey Road been recorded first it would have acquired the same acclaim as Sgt Peppers.

Either way both albums are noted as being amongst the best works of any musical entity of all-time.

In my comment on Jerry Moss, I did not say I was surprised I said I found it most interesting. I thought it was a great thing that he finally came around to enjoying Carpenters' music after not really caring for them for the first five years.

just to clarify I was stating that pepper was not my favorite record it has nothing to do with its historical significance or the quality of the record or whether its the best beatles record that was as I said my opinion of pepper I see it for what its was and is and like what the beatles were doing I was just putting down my favorite records not comparing any of my favorites to pepper itself . Everything you said about pepper I agree with and is true my stating abbey road was the beatles best was also my own opinion. Just clarifying the intent of my post.

I also stand corrected on the second part of my post me saying you were surprised was my mistake sorry for the misquote.

[Rick Henry]

Engima... I apologize if I misunderstood your point. Personally I rank both The White Album and Abbey road as my favorites before Sgt Peppers, but at the same point I feel Peppers is a phenomenal work. Just outstanding... but really I like pretty all of Beatles' albums.

Now back to Horizon... Cinscorp as you stated Horizon garnered from quite a few A&M insiders as well as people in the music industry on the whole. I think people gained a whole new respect for Carpenters with Horizon. It's just too bad that when it came time to record the next album they were both so exhausted that they were not capable of creating another masterpiece. I believe that's why they put in extra time on "Passage" as to regain the status they gained from Horizon. It worked as Passage was very well received by critics and the music industry on the whole. Had Karen's album been released in 1980 I think it would have wowed people as Horizon and Passage did. I think her album would have truly turned heads in a very good way.

[YesterdayOnceMore]

Well as for me, Sgt. Peppers is by far my favorite - but to the point, YES, I must agree that Horizon was Carpenter's Sgt. Peppers. Horizon was so well crafted, and so meticulously recorded, and I find lots of articles where Horizon is specifically mentioned when Carpenters are referred to.

Sgt. Peppers was such a departure for The Beatles. I will say, too, that Horizon was, in certain ways, a departure from other Carpenter albums. The bookended Aurora and Eventide....the gorgeous I Can Dream Can't I, a genre so well done in much earlier years by other artists, yet Carpenter's trademark harmonies were so "just right" for them to do this song, and pull it off beautifully.....Of course, Karen's voice was AWESOME on this whole album, and it had such nice variation to it from the incredibly well done Only Yesterday, to the beautiful Love Me For What I Am, to the fun Please, Mr. Postman! They could do it all, and it showed up well here in Horizon.

Awesome, this!

[Rick Henry]

Hi Tim... I am glad you've found the spinning ray icon... it's funny but oftentimes when I am adding these things I think of you as you're so good at using these things to express yourself...

Horizon was certainly a departure from the norm for the Carpenters in that it showed a level of sophistication not exposed on other Carpenters albums. There were hints previously with songs such as "This Masquerade", "I Can't Make Music", "A Song For You", "Road Ode", "Rainy Days And Mondays", "Superstar", "Maybe It's You"... but an entire album full of sophistication was a first. This album was solid all the way through. There was not one filler cut or fluff number on Horizon.

Can you imagine had Carpenters cut out all the fluff and filler how much more they would have sold and how much more the critics would have hailed them?

Even Richard Carpenter has said on several occasions that if he were to know that things were going to be as they were he would have done things differently and there are several songs he would not have recorded. One Richard says he may not have recorded is "Please Mr. Postman", which that I do not understand as, yes, it may be pop and upbeat, but it's far from being fluff. It's quite a strong pop number and it's a very well liked Carpenters tune. At that it's their biggest worldwide hit. What's more it contains a fantastic Tony Peluso guitar solo, that alone makes the song worthy.