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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 22, 2008 11:06:43 GMT -5
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makapipi
CERTIFIED GOLD MEMBER
Posts: 172
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Post by makapipi on Feb 22, 2008 14:57:10 GMT -5
After all these years from the late 60's when The Fifth Dimension was popular, I finally discovered heard Marilyn McCoo on the oldies station The Jewel. The thing I like about KC and MM is they are very articulate and i can understand what they are singing.
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Feb 22, 2008 18:11:41 GMT -5
After all these years from the late 60's when The Fifth Dimension was popular, I finally discovered heard Marilyn McCoo on the oldies station The Jewel. The thing I like about KC and MM is they are very articulate and i can understand what they are singing. Hi makapipi, You might be interested to know that before doing all her outstanding lead vocals and harmonies with the Fifth Dimension, Marilyn McCoo was reportedly also part of the group Friends of Distinction, and later formed a duo with her husband Billy Davis Jr. after breaking out from the Fifth Dimension. She guest starred in an episode of the TV series "It Takes a Thief" some time during its run from 1968 to 1970 with her Fifth Dimension colleagues. You can check out the thread I started a couple months back on the topic of "Carpenters and the Fifth Dimension Connections": carponline.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=karlc&action=display&thread=1196891500
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 22, 2008 21:51:00 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 25, 2008 22:11:34 GMT -5
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Feb 26, 2008 15:10:13 GMT -5
According to wikipedia, R&B has a very loose definition over the years, which can cover many genres, including jazz, gospel, blues, soul, funk, etc. Writer/producer Robert Palmer defines "rhythm & blues as a catch-all term referring to any music that was made by and for black Americans."
Songwriter/arranger/producer/musician Rod Temperton, of the group Heatwave, contributed to Karen's solo album, writing and arranging "Lovelines" and "If We Try," and also did the arrangements for "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind."
Ella Fitzgerald, in her duet with Karen on "Music, Music, Music", sang "This Masquerade" and a medley of jazz/swing /ballad standards that included "My Funny Valentine", "I'll be Seeing You", "Someone to Watch Over Me", "As Time Goes By" and "Don't Get Around Much Anymore."
If we also include indirect associations with, and/or inspirations by, the Carpenters, there are many covers of their songs by R&B artists. For example, "Close to You" has been covered by Gwen Guthrie, Johnny Mathis, Isaac Hayes, Bobby Womack and Stevie Wonder (talkbox). "We've Only Just Begun" has been covered by Johnny Mathis and Dionne Warwick. "Superstar" has been covered by Luther Vandross, Ruben Studdard and Usher. "For All We Know" has been covered by Shirley Bassey, Dionne Warwick, Sammy Davis Jr. and Johnny Mathis.
More contemporary artists such as Boyz II Men, Mary j. Blige and Alicia Keys have talked about Karen / the Carpenters as a huge influence on their careers.
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 26, 2008 23:12:18 GMT -5
Very good Dreams... you brought up some excellent names and thoughts. First I do want to comment on Stevie Wonder as you mentioned his talkbox remake of "Close To You". Wonder did this in 1971, I imagine being that close to the time after Carpenters had went #1 with the song it must have been done as a tribute to Carpenters. Wonder did a great rendition of the song... as does my friend Tristan Luke... shameful plug there... I've always thought of R&B being more of a musical style than being the "black" persons music. Although, R&B has always been closely aligned with black soul artists of all genres of soul which includes variations of pop, rock, funk, disco, hip hop, rap, gospel, blues, jazz and other genres. R&B is a broad label of a musical genre with many off-shoots. Just as rock is a broad label. "Rock" is so broad that I have seen artists ranging from Carpenters to Led Zeppelin to Bjork to Coldplay to Oingo Boingo to Dido to Michael Bolton to Radiohead to UB40 categorized under the "rock" label. On the subject of remakes Carpenters have remade several songs which were originally or earlier recorded by black artists... "Close To You" by Dionne Warwick, "Beechwood 4-5789" by Marvelettes, "Baby It's You" by the Shirelles, "Hurting Each Other" by Ruby and the Romantics, "Dancing In The Street" by Martha and the Vandellas, "Please Mr. Postman" by the Marvelettes and several others. For her solo album Karen covered "Jimmy Mack" which was a hit for Martha and The Vandellas. Karen's version remains unreleased.
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Feb 27, 2008 0:17:34 GMT -5
... On the subject of remakes Carpenters have remade several songs which were originally or earlier recorded by black artists... "Close To You" by Dionne Warwick, "Beechwood 4-5789" by Marvelettes, "Baby It's You" by the Shirelles, "Hurting Each Other" by Ruby and the Romantics, "Dancing In The Street" by Martha and the Vandellas, "Please Mr. Postman" by the Marvelettes and several others...
That's right --- don't forget earlier releases of "Our Day Will Come" by Ruby and the Romantics, "Da Doo Ron Ron" by the Crystals, "One Fine Day" by the Chiffons, "When I Fall in Love" and "The Christmas Song" by Nat King Cole, and "Boogie Nights" by Heatwave. Also "Trains and Boats", "A House is Not a Home", "Knowing When To Leave", "Make It Easy On Yourself", "There's Always Something There To Remind Me", "I'll Never Fall In Love Again", "Walk On By" and "Do You Know The Way To San Jose?" by Dionne Warwick. Shirley Bassey and George Benson did covers of "This Masquerade", the latter of whom had the most successful version, although I still prefer the Carpenters' rendition the best.
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 27, 2008 1:02:32 GMT -5
... On the subject of remakes Carpenters have remade several songs which were originally or earlier recorded by black artists... "Close To You" by Dionne Warwick, "Beechwood 4-5789" by Marvelettes, "Baby It's You" by the Shirelles, "Hurting Each Other" by Ruby and the Romantics, "Dancing In The Street" by Martha and the Vandellas, "Please Mr. Postman" by the Marvelettes and several others... That's right --- don't forget "Our Day Will Come" by Ruby and the Romantics and "Da Doo Ron Ron" by the Crystals. Yes, Dreams love those songs from the "Now And Then" oldies medley... especially "Our Day Will Come". A few more are "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and "Walk On By" both by Dionne Warwick. And although, I mentioned it earlier I am totally stuck on Karen's solo album remake of "Jimmy Mack"... I like it even more than Martha and the Vandellas original... but than again I am a bit biased.
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Feb 27, 2008 1:31:18 GMT -5
That's right --- don't forget "Our Day Will Come" by Ruby and the Romantics and "Da Doo Ron Ron" by the Crystals. Yes, Dreams love those songs from the "Now And Then" oldies medley... especially "Our Day Will Come". A few more are "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and "Walk On By" both by Dionne Warwick. And although, I mentioned it earlier I am totally stuck on Karen's solo album remake of "Jimmy Mack"... I like it even more than Martha and the Vandellas original... but than again I am a bit biased. ... which is fine. Our preferences are just that --- personal preferences. As I expanded greatly in the previous posting in this thread with additional R&B artists and songs, I like the Carpenters' version of "This Masquerade" better than George Benson's more "successful" cover.
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Post by wisejester7 on Feb 27, 2008 10:04:31 GMT -5
Don't forget the Carpenters covered Nina Simone's New World Coming in their summer TV series Make Your Own Kind Of Music. The song can be heard at the end of the 'Zodiac Medley'.
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 27, 2008 10:49:09 GMT -5
Don't forget the Carpenters covered Nina Simone's New World Coming in their summer TV series Make Your Own Kind Of Music. The song can be heard at the end of the 'Zodiac Medley'. Oh, yes, Nina Simone is a fine artist... I love her voice!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 27, 2008 11:09:44 GMT -5
Yes, Dreams love those songs from the "Now And Then" oldies medley... especially "Our Day Will Come". A few more are "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and "Walk On By" both by Dionne Warwick. And although, I mentioned it earlier I am totally stuck on Karen's solo album remake of "Jimmy Mack"... I like it even more than Martha and the Vandellas original... but than again I am a bit biased. ... which is fine. Our preferences are just that --- personal preferences. As I expanded greatly in the previous posting in this thread with additional R&B artists and songs, I like the Carpenters' version of "This Masquerade" better than George Benson's more "successful" cover. As with you Dreams, I much prefer Carpenters' rendition of "This Masquerade" over George Benson's remake of the song... although Benson did a first rate rendition. George Benson is a great vocal stylist and the musicianship in his songs is right up there with the best of the best. As for the Motown songs Carpenters have covered the same applies for the most part. I prefer the Carpenters' remakes of most of these Motwn songs, which I believe totals four. There's "Please Mr. Postman", "Dancing In The Street", "Jimmy Mack" and "Beechwood 4-5789". "Postman" is easily my favorite of the four Motown songs. "Postman" has such a strong groove to it. Tony Peluso's guitar work is outstanding all throughout the song. I also love the fact that Karen plays the drums on this song. As for "Beechwood 4-5789" I do tend to like Martha and the Vandellas' raw and soulful original quite a bit more. Carpenters' version is just too lightweight and cutsie. I'm not convinced that Carpenters really put their all into this song. The music video for "Beechwood 4-5789" does even less to give the song credibility, it's just too overly cutsie. It pales to the energy they put into "Please Mr. Postman". "Something's Missing"... one of the unreleased songs from Karen's solo recording sessions was originally recorded by a black female vocalist. At this point I can not remember her name, but I did hear the original once and it was fairly good... although Karen's recording and vocal of the song is far superior.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Feb 28, 2008 16:04:41 GMT -5
Ah, yes - some excellent discussion here. I would have enjoyed hearing Roberta Flack and Karen together doing something. I agree with you, Rick, in that they had distinct styles...yes, there were some similarities in their voices. I do think they could have pulled off a wonderful duet with each other, and the soulfulness of it would have been amazing. And, I'm totally with you about This Masquerade, Dreams. It's Karen's vocals, and Richard's clean, crisp approach to this jazz influenced gem that makes it for me. Benson has tremendous talent, no doubt...but the song got much too "fussy" for me with his rendition. The song itself to me leans toward that laid-back, mellow sound that Karen and Richard so perfectly fitted it with. They really knew what a song needed to be magical, didn't they? There's another artist that I think has done Carpenters music well, but I haven't heard any "covers" by this artist, and that would be the daughter of the wonderful Nat King Cole; Natalie. Natalie Cole has done songs ranging in genre from pop to rock to jazz, and each one of them, in my opinion, in expert fashion, I might add. I have heard her sing Carpenter tunes, like Close To You, and I believe it was Yesterday Once More in some TV special.... and would enjoy a cover or two from her of their music. To me, Natalie has a voice that tells you when you hear her "I get this" and she does, indeed. Her interpretations are, well....stellar. I have to honestly say that Marilyn McCoo never struck me as that solid of a vocalist....not in the same league with Karen. She has a nice voice, and is probably way more talented than I'm giving her credit for - I just never followed her after the Fifth Dimension and when she sang with Billy Davis Jr., so I'm sure there is talent there that I'm just not aware of. Well, there's a few thoughts for a Thursday afternoon. Nice thread topic, Rick....Thanks.
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 28, 2008 16:32:01 GMT -5
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Feb 28, 2008 16:55:40 GMT -5
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Post by Rick Henry on Feb 29, 2008 4:27:09 GMT -5
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Feb 29, 2008 10:01:01 GMT -5
But of course, I knew you'd undoubtedly listened to Unforgetable - I'm thinking, what HAVEN'T you listened to...you're quite well versed my friend. I have learned a lot from your knowledge, and no, I have NOT heard the two you mention, but it sounds like I'd like them a lot. I have heard Natalie do Pink Cadillac, and believe me, did not know it was her for a very long time. Nor was I aware that Bruce Springsteen actually wrote the song. Go figure. But I know I like the way Natalie sings it better than anyone else. Thanks for the info, as always - scatting, huh? I KNOW I'd like THAT. She does a bit of scatting, as you know, on the Unforgetable CD, and she has a very easy ability for it. Not forced whatsoever. The way scatting was meant to be done.
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