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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 28, 2006 15:29:15 GMT -5
There are some Carpenters songs with different remixes that you can distinguish among the various issues of singles and album cuts. Sometimes they are subtle, such as the added piano riffs in "We've Only Just Begun" (right after "And when the evening comes...") on "The Singles 1969-73" album compared to the original album cut on the "Close to You" album. Sometimes they are more obvious, such as the added background chorus in "Ave Maria" (in the "From the Top" compilation compared to the original "A Christmas Portrait" album. Sometimes the songs are remastered and the quality may either improve or actually sound less vibrant because the original master recording has deteriorated beyond repair over time. Sometimes they are re-recorded in a major way, such as Karen's lead vocals on "Ticket to Ride" (on the "The Singles 1969-73" album compared to the original "Ticket to Ride"/"Offering").
What I would like to know is whether there are specific versions of Carpenters songs of this nature that you prefer over the other(s)?
For me, I prefer the sparkling piano riff embellishment on "We've Only Just Begun", but find the background chorus on "Ave Maria" detracts from the purity of Karen's vocals. I like the smoother "Ticket to Ride" re-recording much better than the original overall, but prefer Karen's more intimate solo version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time" over the re-recorded version on the "Voice of the Heart" album.
How about you? Are there versions of these and other songs that you may have distinct preferences? For those who may know, did the Carpenters ever make two different full-length versions of "Someday"?
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 28, 2006 20:27:50 GMT -5
 Yes, there is.
The original recording of "I Won't Last A Day Without You" from the album "A Song For You" does not have the same guitar work as found on the remixed 1974 edition - which is found on most of the compilations released subsequently. I love the addition of Tony peluso's fine guitar work in the song, it gives the song more of a contemporary sound.
Speaking of contemporary... Recently I read a comment made Richard. He stated that Carpenters' music was contemporary pop. I have to agree with this as their music isn't truly easy listening and it's certainly not rock - at that their music really isn't staight ahead pop either - it's somewhere inbetween. Their music is really contemporary with the use of modern instruments (for their day in the 70's) and the experimental layered vocal effect. |
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 28, 2006 21:15:07 GMT -5
Yes, Tony's guitar work really added more life to the refrains of "I Won't Last a Day without You." Similarly, "Top of the World" sounded much brighter and crisper when it went from being just a cut on the album "A Song for You" to a single with the added instrumentation. |
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Post by Moe on Oct 29, 2006 3:44:39 GMT -5
"Sleigh Ride" has a slightly different vocal track at the beginning of the song on the "Christmas Collection," versus the original "Christmas Portrait" album and CD. I don't notice it unless I am listening with head phones, but I really find it annoying. Karen's voice is a little different sounding, maybe a different key or a little difference in the recording progress.
Has anyone else noticed this? It is not that big of a deal, but it is just one of those things....
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 29, 2006 10:17:23 GMT -5
In the case of "Make Believe It's Your First Time"... I also much prefer Karen's more intimate and honest solo recording of the song. I love the sparse keyboard arrangement and Karen's easy going heartfelt vocal. The recording from "Voice Of The Heart" seems overdone and the vocal arrangement takes Karen out of range of comfort - it's one of the few Carpenters songs that I do not care for - but ironically I love Karen's solo recording and feel it would have made a very strong single release. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 29, 2006 10:49:15 GMT -5
I myself prefer the original mixes its always my opinion that I like to listen to the Carpenters recording as they were done at the time of their original release. However I do like some of the remixes as well and one example is the single release of Yesterday Once More the added guitar on this track is great and gives the song a little more edge and makes it sound a little fuller, Like Rick said of I Wont Last A Day Without You Tony's guitar work on YOM is fine as well and almost makes it a whole new song.   |
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 29, 2006 14:01:39 GMT -5
"Sleigh Ride" has a slightly different vocal track at the beginning of the song on the "Christmas Collection," versus the original "Christmas Portrait" album and CD. I don't notice it unless I am listening with head phones, but I really find it annoying. Karen's voice is a little different sounding, maybe a different key or a little difference in the recording progress. Has anyone else noticed this? It is not that big of a deal, but it is just one of those things.... Hi WJ7, I only have the original "Christmas Portrait" album version, so it's good to know that I already have the better version. I do notice that for some songs, the later-released versions are not necessarily improvements on the originals — they may sound a little flatter, hollower or echoey. I wonder if this may be in part due to the wider range and resolution of the sound spectrum on analog vinyl compared to those on digital format. |
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 29, 2006 14:40:51 GMT -5
...I like to listen to the Carpenters recording as they were done at the time of their original release... I notice this to be the case with "For All We Know," in which the woodwinds sound fuller and richer on the tan-cover "Carpenters" album than the version in the "From the Top" compilation. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 30, 2006 9:04:06 GMT -5
I agree on "Ticket To Ride". The original recording was good - but the rerecording was far better. The addition of the sleek guitar parts gives the song more of a contemporary feel to it. But mostly it's Karen's vocal is vastly improved. I never cared for her vocal on the original as she was somewhat off-key in parts.
On the original mixes verses the remixed/remastered editions of Carpenters albums - I tend to like them equally. The originals are fine - but I find for todays equipment the remastered editions have more of a sonic boom to them. I am not so much a purest in that if it sounds good to me - it sounds good. And both the original vinyl editions and the remastered CD editions sound great to me. I do agree that vinyl has some pluses over digital (CD). Yet on the same page Cd has it's pluses over vinyl. They both have their positives and negatives equally. Just my take on the topic.
In not really being so much of a purest - I really enjoy it when Richard adds a few extra keyboard parts or some new electric guitar chords to the old songs - it's like giving them a new little boost - anyway if I so wish to listen to the original releases - they are always available for play. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 30, 2006 9:06:55 GMT -5
...I like to listen to the Carpenters recording as they were done at the time of their original release... I notice this to be the case with "For All We Know," in which the woodwinds sound fuller and richer on the tan-cover "Carpenters" album than the version in the "From the Top" compilation. I have to agree - the "From The Top" release was not mixed very well. In some cases the music almost drowns Karen voice out.
Now the mix on "Carpenters Perform Carpenter" is excellent. Same with the Millenium Edition - I really enjoyed the mix of "Love Is Surrender" on that - with it's addition drum and percussion parts. |
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Post by enigma on Oct 30, 2006 11:23:28 GMT -5
OK sorry to go back to this Rick but are you referring to the fact that the guitar is absent on the original IWLADWY because I can't make out any guitar in the original yet on my Essential collection I do hear guitar I have 2 ASFY albums on CD with the different versions of Top Of The World on each CD but can hear no guitar on this song (IWLADWY) on either version of ASFY one even says in the linear notes Richard remixed this song maybe there are more than 2 versions or mine is a misprint. I seem to have trouble distiguishing some remixes from the originals. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 30, 2006 21:08:29 GMT -5
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 31, 2006 0:34:24 GMT -5
...are you referring to the fact that the guitar is absent on the original IWLADWY because I can't make out any guitar in the original yet on my Essential collection I do hear guitar I have 2 ASFY albums on CD with the different versions of Top Of The World on each CD but can hear no guitar on this song (IWLADWY) on either version of ASFY one even says in the linear notes Richard remixed this song maybe there are more than 2 versions or mine is a misprint. I seem to have trouble distiguishing some remixes from the originals. Yes, sometimes it can be puzzling. In the "Carpenters Compact Disc Collection," which mirrors all of the Carpenters' studio record albums (on vinyl) song by song in CD format, most songs that have been remixed or re-recorded later are pretty much left intact in their original forms, including "I Won't Last a Day Without You." The odd exception is "Top of the World," which is the updated version issued as a single. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 31, 2006 1:13:07 GMT -5
...are you referring to the fact that the guitar is absent on the original IWLADWY because I can't make out any guitar in the original yet on my Essential collection I do hear guitar I have 2 ASFY albums on CD with the different versions of Top Of The World on each CD but can hear no guitar on this song (IWLADWY) on either version of ASFY one even says in the linear notes Richard remixed this song maybe there are more than 2 versions or mine is a misprint. I seem to have trouble distiguishing some remixes from the originals. Yes, sometimes it can be puzzling. In the "Carpenters Compact Disc Collection," which mirrors all of the Carpenters' studio record albums (on vinyl) song by song in CD format, most songs that have been remixed or re-recorded later are pretty much left intact in their original forms, including "I Won't Last a Day Without You." The odd exception is "Top of the World," which is the updated version issued as a single. I always found that odd that the CD edition of "A Song For You" contained the remixed single release of "Top Of The World" on it - instead of the original recording. It seems Richard should have kept the original recording on the CD release - as the single version has shown up on most of the compilation releases.
I'm not too sure but I believe the original recording of TOTW has shown up on at least one compilation release. Anyone here know? |
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Post by enigma on Oct 31, 2006 1:42:21 GMT -5
Yes Rick the original TOTW song is on the From The Top Collection and is on the CD in the Japanese release of the ASFY in the CD box set. As for the remixes dispite the linear notes I strongly suspect that the whole album is in its original form dispite Richards notes that say there are remixes there is no noticeable difference to me in the songs (no extra instruments etc) though I do notice a difference in the recordings (my 2 ASFY CDs) such as sharper piano or absence of echoe in Karens voice . This may be due to the fact that the Japanese used 33 bit remastering as opposed to the usual which is 16 or sometimes 24 bit this may make a difference in the sound of the CD I am not sure. I assume GoodOldDreams has the UK version which is different from the Japanese release (TOTW is a good example) or so I am told by UK Carpenters fans who have the album box set released there. I base my observations on the Japanese box sets and some of the "remastered" CDs I own. Maybe someone owns this box set and can shed some light on this supposedly all the CDs in this box set are the original mixes except ASFY which is noted in the booklet that came with the set thats where I got confused because the mixes sound like they are the originals and unfortuneately I do not own the original 1972 release of ASFY to do a direct comparision myself. Sorry to harp on this but it has been something that has kind of bothered me whether I own the original recording or a remixed version of ASFY on CD. |
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Oct 31, 2006 12:04:25 GMT -5
The aim of this topic is to help all of us individually and collectively to listen more closely and take notice of many possible song variations, ranging from subtle to obvious, that exists in the complete Carpenters catalog of recordings to date. For most of us who do not have the means to access and hear all these variations, it helps us to target the preferred versions when making music purchasing choices. Thanks to all who are contributing to this discussion. It is very informative and helps steer us to "the same page" with each song!
As we have observed, remixes tend to ADD more layers of music. However, I really didn't notice there was a song remix in which something was actually taken OUT of the original version until I ran across the following on the official Carpenters website:
[yellow]Q:[/yellow] Upon first hearing the "Master Karaoke" remixes years ago, I noticed in "Rainy Days and Mondays" that the string line was mixed out during the sax solo. This has also been a common mix on most if not all of the subsequent compilations. What was your reasoning for this?
[yellow]A:[/yellow] Yes, because as time went on, I felt the string line didn’t really work in the sax solo; it was heard enough under the vocal.
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 31, 2006 12:28:26 GMT -5
The aim of this topic is to help all of us individually and collectively to listen more closely and take notice of many possible song variations, ranging from subtle to obvious, that exists in the complete Carpenters catalog of recordings to date. For most of us who do not have the means to access and hear all these variations, it helps us to target the preferred versions when making music purchasing choices. Thanks to all who are contributing to this discussion. It is very informative and helps steer us to "the same page" with each song! As we have observed, remixes tend to ADD more layers of music. However, I really didn't notice there was a song remix in which something was actually taken OUT of the original version until I ran across the following on the official Carpenters website: [yellow]Q:[/yellow] Upon first hearing the "Master Karaoke" remixes years ago, I noticed in "Rainy Days and Mondays" that the string line was mixed out during the sax solo. This has also been a common mix on most if not all of the subsequent compilations. What was your reasoning for this? [yellow]A:[/yellow] Yes, because as time went on, I felt the string line didn’t really work in the sax solo; it was heard enough under the vocal. THAT is exactly why I'm not too fond of remixes...the taking out part. I like hearing Karen drum as oppossed to new tracks by another just to bring things sonically up to date. |
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 31, 2006 21:08:40 GMT -5
Hi Wisejester7... None of Karen's drum parts have ever been taken out of any recordings for remastering or remixing. Richard would never do such a thing. Any parts or songs that Karen did drums for are all still there in all released and rereleased editions.
There is a difference between remastering and remixing. Remastering is not remixing - in remastering it's not the actual music which is changed but it's primarily the sound levels that are changed.
Basically in remastering - refers the master which is used to duplicate to make the product which is sold by retailers. In remastering the master copy is upgraded - which would mean sound levels are adjusted on each track. That means if it's a 24 track recording they are going to go into each of the 24 tracks and adjust the sound levels. One track may only have Tony Peluso's guitar, the other may only have the parts of Karen's drumwork. Another track may have only Karen's lead vocals, another will have part of the backup vocals with another having the rest of the back up vocals - and so forth. Each track is cleaned up for surface noises - sound levels adjusted, pitches and frequencies are adjusted and so forth. This is the process which adjusts the sonics - not the remixing. Remastering if done right can add a new life to the music - without changing the music itself.
Remixing is an entire different process - I will expand on this in my next post in this topic. |
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