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Post by Nessie71 on Oct 17, 2006 20:33:04 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
Has anyone seen a book called "I Hate Myself and want to Die: the 52 most depressing songs of all time" They have put Goodbye to Love at number 34. I love this song, altough to my surprise I heard Richard on the Opal interview saying it isn't very good song if you take away Karen's vocal and the guitar solo. Any thoughts? Nessie
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 17, 2006 21:44:06 GMT -5
Hi Nessie... I remember hearing about this book a few months ago. Very interesting that this song would make that sort of chart. I love "Goodbye To Love" it's one of Carpenters' very best songs - and also one of the best songs in all of popular music. I especially love Tony Peluso's guitar solo.
Richard has gone on record as saying the vocal arrangement was extremely hard to sing, because of it's long phrases, but Karen pulled it off with ease. Karen was a true natural.
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Post by Moe on Oct 18, 2006 0:14:14 GMT -5
The song is definitely dark, but not depressing. I think Rainy Days and Mondays would be better qualified in the list, though I wouldn't associate it with depressing, either. I consider it more introspective. Both songs are awesome in their own right.
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 18, 2006 7:57:36 GMT -5
Lyrically speaking, the song is way down there. I see it as resignation type of song.
There is some hope injected toward the end of the song ...so NOT a depressing song afterall!
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Post by enigma on Oct 18, 2006 8:11:06 GMT -5
I must agree Karen does a great job on a difficult song she truely is a first rate vocalist. The lyrics are rather dark but the song itself is outstanding and ground breaking. It really put the world on notice as far as how ballads can be done you can have a powerful guitar solo in a ballad and pull it off. It was a bold move at the time but Richard proved that his musical instincts were dead on and he made what would seem unhead of work so well and redefine the ballad; enter the power ballad. This type of thing was done before but Richard really put and exclaimation mark on this type of song and influenced so many song that came after it. No I feel such a powerful song is far from depressing dispite the dark lyrics. Proof there was way more to the Carpenter than people gave them credit for.
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 18, 2006 11:04:17 GMT -5
A few other interesting points about "Goodbye To Love"...
In 1972 it reached #7 on the U.S. chart - which was somewhat a disappointment after the Carpenters had six consecutive Top 3 hits (excluding "It's Going To Take Sometime"). The song also just missed being certified Gold. Despite all this the song has gone on to grow in notoriety and is now one of the Carpenters' best known and most popular songs. Just goes to show you can't keep a great song down. I think at the time people who bought Carpenters records were a bit shocked by it - I personally loved the song from the first time I heard it.
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 18, 2006 16:19:09 GMT -5
I agree that overall this wouldn't be considered a depressing song. I think the word "resignation" that was used by wisejester sums it up well. It takes a realistic look at the current state of relationships, but there is a note of hope. When the words "There may come a time when I will see that I was wrong" are sung, there even seems to be a change in the tone or style of music (one of our musicians could probably describe it much better.) Just off the top of my head without analyzing it in great detail, I'm thinking maybe "Where Do I Go From Here" might be a more depressing song (but I love it nonetheless.)
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 19, 2006 1:10:29 GMT -5
As for depressing songs I'd say "I Can't Make Music" and "Solitaire" are right up there - and also quite fantastic songs.
sidenote - "Solitaire" has simply got to be one of Karen's top 3 best vocals.
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 19, 2006 7:55:07 GMT -5
We should put it to the test...erhmm...poll...on which song we think is the most depressing! I don't think GoodBye To Love would win: )
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 19, 2006 8:17:44 GMT -5
We should put it to the test...erhmm...poll...on which song we think is the most depressing! I don't think GoodBye To Love would win: ) I was thinking of starting a poll, but then I thought of too many songs that would have to be 'put to the test'...some for lyrical content, some for presentation/mood created, and some have both elements. Here is the list I was thinking of: 'Depressing' Songs...we love nonetheless: GoodBye To Love I Can't Make Music Solitaire Superstar Where Do I Go From Here I Need To Be In Love Rainy Days & Mondays This Masquerade One More Time The Uninvited Guest Crescent Noon Desperado All You Get From Love Is A Love Song Ticket To Ride Little Girl Blue Karen's Theme Tryin' To Get The Feeling Again I Can Dream Can't I Somebody's Been Lyin' When It's Gone (It's Just Gone) The End Of The World I'm sure there are more... While some of them might not actually be considered 'depressing', they are certainly 'down'.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 19, 2006 8:46:09 GMT -5
GEEZZZZ.....stay away for a day or two and look at what one misses....So many great topics occurring here. Goodbye To Love had so much controversay surrounding it when it came out because of Peluso's fuzz electric guitar solo, which sounds so mild now days. But as Enigma pointed out, Richard put the exclamation point at the end of the words Power Ballad. He really took a chance and the article Rick referenced, that this song was hovering around number 7 rather than higher I believe I have read was due to a lot of upset by Carpenter fans that this type of "sell-out" was happening. Many fans did think our talented duo had sold-out and were only going for the "bucks" rather than the wonderful music all had come to know. As for me, I'm like Rick - I loved it from the first time I heard it. And as for depressing? I would guess, just like anything else, it's your state of mind more than the song that would have that effect. I mean, if one is truly scraping bottom anyway, which we all do from time to time, and made a steady diet of songs like Goodbye To Love, then yes, I would guess it can be seen as depressing. I don't think, however, that it's a depressing song at all. It's a beautiful song - and here's one place I disagree with Richard. I do NOT disagree that it takes a most talented singer like Karen with a wide vocal range and lots of air, control and spot on harmonics to sing this song - that much is true. VERY true. But, I don't think that if you take Karen's vocals out, and Tony's guitar out of the song, that it would be a "bad" song, necessarily, however the song is what it is - Karen singing these long, wonderful phrases, and Tony playing this wonderful electric fuzz guitar solo - and that, as they say, is that! GREAT stuff.....not depressing at all in my book. I love it. Tim WJ7, I think we could call these dark and darker songs that you listed, rather than depressing.....just a thought. They definitely have "darkness" to them, but again, even those on this list I do not find necessarily "depressing." I guess I just think that's too harsh of a descriptor.
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Post by wisejester7 on Oct 19, 2006 9:54:25 GMT -5
Tim said..."WJ7, I think we could call these dark and darker songs that you listed, rather than depressing.....just a thought. They definitely have "darkness" to them, but again, even those on this list I do not find necessarily "depressing." I guess I just think that's too harsh of a descriptor."
Well, actually, I couldn't agree more!
In truth, I find the Carpenters, Karen and Richard, to be nothing but POSITIVE. Their public persona is pure goodness. Even THEY couldn't change the public perception...i.e. Goody 4 Shoes.
Some of the songs they sing are naturally darker than others. Every mood was covered! Perhaps I should have used the term 'mood enhancing...the dark side' instead of depressing. I, myself, have never been depressed when listening to the Carpenters. In fact, they ALWAYS have the opposite effect;-)!
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Oct 19, 2006 10:13:37 GMT -5
Tim said..."WJ7, I think we could call these dark and darker songs that you listed, rather than depressing.....just a thought. They definitely have "darkness" to them, but again, even those on this list I do not find necessarily "depressing." I guess I just think that's too harsh of a descriptor." Well, actually, I couldn't agree more! In truth, I find the Carpenters, Karen and Richard, to be nothing but POSITIVE. Their public persona is pure goodness. Even THEY couldn't change the public perception...i.e. Goody 4 Shoes. Some of the songs they sing are naturally darker than others. Every mood was covered! Perhaps I should have used the term 'mood enhancing...the dark side' instead of depressing. I, myself, have never been depressed when listening to the Carpenters. In fact, they ALWAYS have the opposite effect;-)! Couldn't have said it better myself!!! Tim
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 19, 2006 22:14:22 GMT -5
I agree... the Carpenters have never symbolized depression for me - I guess it's all in the perspective you take. Karen's voice is so uplifting - that even on those dark tunes she still somehow manages to bring about a feeling of warmth in what she's singing.
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Post by smoothie2 on Oct 20, 2006 0:05:10 GMT -5
Welcome Nessie71...hope to have you check in regularly! When I consider the lyrics to G. to Love, then the words and message conveyed are kind of "downers", but the way Karen sings it of course, and the superb guitar solo.....then overall, it's not so depressing. There is hope as someone mentioned, "but for now this is my song..." I think "It's Gone" and Solitaire, and Crescent Noon are much more depressing. ........When I first heard G. to Love, and heard that crazy guitar it was so unexpected compared to most of their songs they had at the time, that I truly was turned off by the song and for the C's as well. I was never one to really get in on hard rock (and to me at that time, that guitar piece was too close to hard rock for me) ....In any case with time, and especially now I really like that guitar. It sounds so Classic 70's to me. ;D
smoothie
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Post by Prisoner_Walking on Oct 27, 2006 7:03:22 GMT -5
"No-one ever cared if I should live or die"....let's face it, you can't get more depressing lyrics than that!
But how ironic that those words, sung by Karen Carpenter, are actually somewhat uplifting.
There is a deep dark place in all of us which revells in a bit of 'heartbreak' music from time to time - I just think that depressing is totally the wrong term for it. Tragic, melancholy, starkly beautiful maybe - but since when is truly great music ever depressing?
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Post by Rick Henry on Oct 27, 2006 9:41:48 GMT -5
I have to agree with your comment Leo - truly great music just can't be depressing.
Yes, the lyrics in "Goodbye To Love" are dark and convey thoughts of loneliness and sadness - but at the same time Karen's voice and the music are so outstanding that the song itself is a power packed source of energy and hope. Everytime hear that excellent guitar solo I am awed and energized.
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Post by ps11932 on Oct 27, 2006 16:51:35 GMT -5
Tragic- melancholic- lonely- sad- dark; all great words and descriptions you all have given. With The Carpenters, as in most great music and other forms of art, I suppose, there seems to be the element of "putting it all out there"- of expressing the despair, futility and hopelessness being felt. It's something we can all relate to and is probably a strong factor in our Carpenter connection. And once the realization of the depth of the pits is expressed, you can move on, hopefully to strength and a road to recovery. (I've noticed that quite a few of the Psalms in The Bible start with expressions of despair and end up with renewed hope.)
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