|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 18, 2006 23:35:20 GMT -5
"Crescent Noon" is one of my most favorite songs of all-time. It's one of the Carpenters' most colorful lyrics. The words bring images to my mind as I listen to this song. I can imagine the seasons stumbling round in my mind. This is one of their most poetic songs.
This is one of those songs which I feel people have different interpretations when they listen to it. I'd really like to discuss differing viewpoints on this song. I always think it's interesting when someone can receive something different from one thing (song).
So, what does this song say to you?
Here are the lyrics: Green September Burned to October brown Bare November Led to December's frozen ground The seasons stumbled round Our drifting lives are bound To a falling crescent noon Feather clouds cry A vale of tears to earth Morning breaks and No one sees a quiet mountain bird Dressed in a brand new day The sun is on its way To a falling crescent noon Somewhere in A fairytale forest lies one Answer that is waiting to be heard You and I were Born like the breaking day All our seasons All our green Septembers Burn away Slowly we'll fade into A sea of midnight blue And a falling crescent noon
|
|
|
Post by smoothie2 on Aug 19, 2006 0:18:53 GMT -5
img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/folder/earthspin.gif [/IMG] Aaaahh....Crescent Noon...CHILL FACTOR DELUXE!! I don'tbelieve anyone else could even try to come close to the way Karen delivers this. Very vivid imagery in every line. To me, it's a real "downer"...not uplifting other than these images of the seasons as they change. And yet, to me, that's the whole concept of the song...that we will soon drift away from this world, just as the seasons. And then a brand new day to re-discover the wonders of that day, we fail to see that "mountain bird." His beauty and we fail also to focus on the seasons and what life is to us. A song of reflection, some sadness, and reality.... Thank you Rick also for posting these lyrics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Very Interesting thoughts. Cr. Noon is unique since most of the sad songs have to do with a broken relationship, or the hopefulness for one. CR. NooN ...could have been something the poet Emily Dickinson wrote since so many of her poems deal with death, dying, although, many of hers are about the beauty of nature, flowers, friends. My favorite part of Cr. N. is the rising harmony which starts with "Somewhere in a fairytale lies one answer waiting to be heard" ....also right before that in the background vocals is heard: I think ..."sha-la-la-......sha-la-la... Haunting tunes.
|
|
|
Post by cam83 on Aug 19, 2006 1:04:23 GMT -5
Hi All, Always thought the lyric was, NO ONE SEES THE QUIET MOUNTAIN BIRTH...
Cam
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 19, 2006 1:19:28 GMT -5
Hi All, Always thought the lyric was, NO ONE SEES THE QUIET MOUNTAIN BIRTH... Cam I've seen the lyric as "mountain birth" all over the internet on several lyric sites - but that is incorrect as in the "Offering / Close To You" music book which I purchased from the original fan club in the 70's the correct lyric is actually "mountain bird".
I also see on the same lyrics sites the word "veil" is mispelled and is spelled as "vale".
|
|
|
Post by GoodOldDreams on Aug 19, 2006 12:19:07 GMT -5
Hi All, Always thought the lyric was, NO ONE SEES THE QUIET MOUNTAIN BIRTH... Cam I've seen the lyric as "mountain birth" all over the internet on several lyric sites - but that is incorrect as in the "Offering / Close To You" music book which I purchased from the original fan club in the 70's the correct lyric is actually "mountain bird".
I also see on the same lyrics sites the word "veil" is mispelled and is spelled as "vale". I have always thought it was "birth" also. It might have crossed lyricist John Bettis' mind to get a better-sounding rhyme of "earth" two lines back with "birth" rather than "bird." Of course, "brown" and "ground" in the first verse don't rhyme was well as "day" and "away" in the last verse either. Listening closely to the song and hearing how Karen's vocal lead and the backing chorus surges "bir--" without a distinctive, definitive "th" of "d" ending sound, I can see the ambiguity and confusion... Rick, it would be great if you can arrange an interview with John Bettis and include this as a question for him!
|
|
|
Post by ps11932 on Aug 19, 2006 12:44:26 GMT -5
Thanks Rick, for bringing up the topic of this excellent song- well written and performed, of course. There will always be plenty of discussion over the meaning and application- I have enjoyed the insights thus far and eagerly anticipate more. I have often associated this song, to some degree, with the Book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament- that life can be futile, and time can speed by with, seemingly, little effect. Yet there is a strength available to us, that can have an impact on our lives- and the people and circumstances we encounter. Application-wise, I even sense a musical queue when the lyrics of the "quiet mountain bird" come in with a mixing and blend of voices in a fresher harmony. Looking forward to hearing more from you all about this song!
|
|
|
Post by beaner on Aug 19, 2006 13:29:47 GMT -5
This has got to be one of the songs with the most feelings that can be felt ever for me. It can be sad, yet uplifting. It can be mellowing because of the slowness of it and yet powerful enough for the chill factor.
I have always been fond of this song and especially love the low notes that Karen sings on the song. One of the songs I would want to play more than once!!!
Beaner
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 19, 2006 13:49:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 19, 2006 18:19:21 GMT -5
Hi All, Always thought the lyric was, NO ONE SEES THE QUIET MOUNTAIN BIRTH... Cam I've seen the lyric as "mountain birth" all over the internet on several lyric sites - but that is incorrect as in the "Offering / Close To You" music book which I purchased from the original fan club in the 70's the correct lyric is actually "mountain bird".
I also see on the same lyrics sites the word "veil" is mispelled and is spelled as "vale". I have finally dug out my Offering/Close To You music book since I've been remembering these lyrics by memory from several years back.
After looking at the book I realized I was partially incorrect in remembering the lyric. The "mountain bird" part is correct - but the "veil of tears" part I was wrong about. The correct lyric is "vale of tears". I will go back and change any of the lyrics I've posted on the forum.
Seeing that the lyric is "vale of tears" changes the meaning a bit. When I thought it was "veil of tears" - that meant that the tears (or rain) fell with a veil - meaning being covered or clouded. But the word "vale" means unhappy. The meaning of the lyric "vale of tears" means "unhappy tears" - interesting now that I'm actually dissecting the words and getting to the deeper meaning.
I'm going to come back with a complete dissection of the lyrics of this song and have a concise meaning of the lyrics. Of course as with art it can all be subjective - but we can atleast get to root meanings of words and possibly have a better understanding of what is being said here.
That's what I love about Carpenters - they weren't just a fluffy pop band with meaningless songs. They're songs were deep and creative - I guess that's yet one more reason they've outlived many in terms of popularity.
Check out the thread on misheard lyric - I am posting the actual pages from the Offering/Close To You songbook - so all can actually see the lyrics from this official book which was released sometime around 1973-74 and was sold through the original fan club.
|
|
|
Post by GoodOldDreams on Aug 19, 2006 23:52:03 GMT -5
I've seen the lyric as "mountain birth" all over the internet on several lyric sites - but that is incorrect as in the "Offering / Close To You" music book which I purchased from the original fan club in the 70's the correct lyric is actually "mountain bird".
I also see on the same lyrics sites the word "veil" is mispelled and is spelled as "vale". I have finally dug out my Offering/Close To You music book since I've been remembering these lyrics by memory from several years back.
After looking at the book I realized I was partially incorrect in remembering the lyric. The "mountain bird" part is correct - but the "veil of tears" part I was wrong about. The correct lyric is "vale of tears". I will go back and change any of the lyrics I've posted on the forum.
Seeing that the lyric is "vale of tears" changes the meaning a bit. When I thought it was "veil of tears" - that meant that the tears (or rain) fell with a veil - meaning being covered or clouded. But the word "vale" means unhappy. The meaning of the lyric "vale of tears" means "unhappy tears" - interesting now that I'm actually dissecting the words and getting to the deeper meaning.
I'm going to come back with a complete dissection of the lyrics of this song and have a concise meaning of the lyrics. Of course as with art it can all be subjective - but we can atleast get to root meanings of words and possibly have a better understanding of what is being said here.
That's what I love about Carpenters - they weren't just a fluffy pop band with meaningless songs. They're songs were deep and creative - I guess that's yet one more reason they've outlived many in terms of popularity.
Check out the thread on misheard lyric - I am posting the actual pages from the Offering/Close To You songbook - so all can actually see the lyrics from this official book which was released sometime around 1973-74 and was sold through the original fan club. Hi Rick, Thanks for your efforts in trying to help us to clarify the lyrics. In the songbook "Carpenters Gold" (a voluminous book which contains some 43 songs from their first five albums plus "Make Your Own Kind of Music"), the spelling of "vale," which is actually a poetic term for "valley," is confirmed. However, like you, my original hearing of the word as "veil" (a covering as in a bridal veil) seems to make perfect poetic sense as well. When it comes to the other lyrics later, however, the songbook indicates "... no one sees a quiet mountain BIRTH...", which conjures up a very different visual image than "... a quiet mountain BiRD." I will send the relevant pages to you, Rick. If music publishers cannot even agree, perhaps we need to find out the original intent directly from the lyricist, John Bettis... I guess it is important to note that we all try to interpret songs in ways that are meaningful and specific to each of us, and at this point, the true nature of the wording remains inconclusive.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 20, 2006 1:19:28 GMT -5
Hi Dreams... thanks for your input on this. I am aware of the term "vale" being another word for valley - although I found the following description for the term "vale of tears": hard case, hard life, hard plight, miserable life, tough row to hoe.
It is interesting that two books (distributed by the same publisher) have different lyrics in the case of "bird" vs. "birth". It would be interesting to find out which is which.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Aug 20, 2006 8:19:49 GMT -5
all debates on lyrics aside I will give yall my take on this song. I have always taken this song to a cyclical tone life to death day to night happiness to sadness a love that was but is no more. Though this song is so metaphorical I often find myself taking it literally lyrically speaking. When they sing of green September going into brown October I think of summer turning into fall. When they sing of a mountain bird or a fairy tale forest thats what comes to my mind an immage of a bird and a forest. Of course as I opened this post I do see alot of metaphoric and hidden meaning in this song that is the brilliance of the lyrics but though its not a very interesting take on this song and perhaps it is too simplified I often do take the lyrics literally and see the images the lyrics convey point blank. However I love this imagry I love taking the journey and having the images appear in my mind as I listen to the lyrics of this song its like and illistrated storybook vivid and quite enjoyable. As for the song itself the delivery that Karen gives in this song is second to none I really love the fact that Richard deliberately understated the arrangement to maximise the use of Karens voice and delivery to dominate the song. As I listen to this fantatic delivery by Karen I can almost imagine Richard saying to himself "there is not alot I can do to improve on this one arrangement wise so I will keep it subtle" even if he was not thinking this exact thing when I listen to the song I can see how that scenerio could develop. This is a truely wonderful song its strange that it is considered a "downer" song yet it floores me everytime I hear it and reaffirms one of the many reasons I love Karen and the Carpenters.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 20, 2006 9:33:32 GMT -5
I do plan on coming back with my views on the song itself and what I envision when I hear it. But, since I am a stickler for correct lyrics I want to comment again on the "mountain bird" or "mountain birth" lyric.
I believe the correct lyric is "mountain bird" as John Bettis was always very careful to write things which are real. He generally used terms which were already known or used by others. Her tried to keep his lyrics as realistic and common as much as possible. I guess he did this so they average person could relate.
A "mountain bird" is something which does exist. As a matter of fact there are lists of "mountain birds" on the internet. On the other hand the term "mountain birth" just does not sound like Bettis' style nor is it a term I've heard used before. It doesn't make much sense either. A "mountain birth" does not seem like it would be something that would be a quiet event.
Than again the term "Crescent Noon" doesn't make any sense. "Crescent Moon" makes perfect sense - but "Crescent Noon" doesn't. So, I guess that blows my theory on Bettis lyric writing techniques out the window.
That's just my take on it.
Going back to the "vale of tears" - Dreams... I must say after really thinking about that one - you are right in it's description. A "vale of tears" would be a "valley full of tears" - that would signify a non-stop flood of tears (and or rain).
|
|
|
Post by GoodOldDreams on Aug 20, 2006 12:56:34 GMT -5
Hi Rick, My take on "... no one sees a quiet mountain birth ..." is akin to massive volcanic eruptions and lava flow in the creation of cinder cones and new islands (as is happening even today in Hawaii), the irony being "quiet" because it is occuring in a primordial setting, untouched by human beings. As the riddle goes, "if a tree fell in a forest, and no one was there to hear it, would it make a sound?" I agree with you that "Crescent Moon" seems to make more sense than "Crescent Noon" in common usage, but that may all be part of the irony that John Bettis intended — hope for a brand new day, but despair at the unexpected darkness of an approaching solar eclipse (hence the "crescent") in the middle of the day. The lyrics may be more profound and mysterious than it would appear at first glance!
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 20, 2006 17:32:23 GMT -5
Hi Rick, My take on "... no one sees a quiet mountain birth ..." is akin to massive volcanic eruptions and lava flow in the creation of cinder cones and new islands (as is happening even today in Hawaii), the irony being "quiet" because it is occuring in a primordial setting, untouched by human beings. As the riddle goes, "if a tree fell in a forest, and no one was there to hear it, would it make a sound?" I agree with you that "Crescent Moon" seems to make more sense than "Crescent Noon" in common usage, but that may all be part of the irony that John Bettis intended — hope for a brand new day, but despair at the unexpected darkness of an approaching solar eclipse (hence the "crescent") in the middle of the day. The lyrics may be more profound and mysterious than it would appear at first glance! Hi Dreams... Your interpretation of "Mountain birth" does make sense and it is somewhat poetic.
Here is my take in the possibility that the lyric is "Mountain bird". In the breaking of morning the first thing we usually hear is the birds outside singing their morning song. But here in this lonely place where a "vale of tears" has fallen nobody hears the beautiful song of the "mountain bird".
Or it could also be taken in that everything is so still in this place where the feather clouds have cried a vale of tears that not even a mountain bird is around to sing it's morning song.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Henry on Aug 21, 2006 9:20:53 GMT -5
The more I think about this song, the more I realize that it's interpretation can be subjective. There are different ways of hearing it or interpreting the meaning of the words.
What amkes it even more interesting is not really knowing whether the lyric is "mountain bird" or "mountain birth". I tried listening with headphones and played this section over a few times. When it gets to this part it sounds like they're saying "mountain bir". They leave the "d" or "th" off at the end of the word. They did that a lot for overall sound.
In envisioning the lyric with the word as "birth": Feather clouds cry A vale of tears to earth Morning breaks and No one sees a quiet mountain birth
This is my interpretation: Morning breaks. It goes from being dark and nothing can be seen. Slowly the earth lights up and finally the mountain(s) can be seen - but there is nobody around to see the beauty of the nature in the stillness of the morning daylight. This is a lonely place as noted by the "vale of tears". Tears can be a happy thing or a sad thing. In this case they are a sad thing since they're falling into a "valley". The term "valley" usually represents the "lows" in life.
Here's another interesting piece of information. A "feather cloud" is a slang term for a "Cirrus cloud". A cirrus cloud is a wispy white cloud (usually of fine ice crystals) at a high altitude (4 to 8 miles).
Here is a link to a brief description and a picture of some cirrus clouds: Click Here to see Feather Clouds
|
|
|
Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Aug 21, 2006 13:29:54 GMT -5
VERY interesting discussion going on here with regard to this song. I have always enjoyed this beautiful, somewhat morose sounding, yet beautifully haunting melody. Actually, I've always "heard" the controversial lyric in question as Mountain Bird, but never really thought much about it, until now. Why don't we ask Richard, if we can't get to Bettis? I don't mind emailing Becky.....just let me know. I'll be back with my actual thoughts on this one. It's a very intriguing number, and will require a bit of good thought. I love dissecting these songs. Best, Tim
|
|
|
Post by wisejester7 on Aug 21, 2006 22:25:33 GMT -5
'Crescent Noon' and 'Don't Be Afraid' are two of my favorite songs. They both sing about life.
'Crescent Noon' is a more serious view of the ever present cycle of birth, death, and rebirth.
'Don't Be Afraid' covers what to do now, here in the present...."don't be afraid to love","don't be afraid to give all you have to give","...living is what we all were put on this earth to do".
;-)wisejester7
|
|