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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 21, 2006 23:02:03 GMT -5
;D ;D Tonight I'm trying to unwind by watching The Karen Carpenter Story that I have on VHS. As the movie begins of course, the camera pans around what I have always assumed was a "set" of the Newville House - Karen's bedroom (or Richards, since that's where she collapsed) - all of the Carpenters memoribalia to include the crystal piano with Carpenters logo on it, and then we see Richard drive up to the front of the house as the ambulance is taking Karen away..... Does anyone know, and can someone please tell me - were they actually allowed to film AT the Newville house, or is this really a set? I know that some of the outfits worn by Cynthia are Karen's actual outfits, and others are not. Who knows how much of the props, outfits and actual locatations are real? Newville house? Lubec House? When Close To You hits number one, do they use the actual first home the Carpenter family moved into? I'd sure like to know if anyone knows the answers to these questions. Thanks to all. Tim ;D ;D
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Post by Moe on Mar 22, 2006 3:53:57 GMT -5
I believe that it was at the actual house. I remember reading that Richard tried to make it as real as possible, such as using Karen's own clothes. I think the same paramedics that worked on Karen were the same ones in the movie. I could be wrong, but I am thinking I remember reading something like that.
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 22, 2006 22:23:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Moe. I think you're undoubtedly right. I sent Richard a Fans Ask question today (after getting to personally speak with his assistant, Becky for the first time by phone - she's just delightful, as I suspected she would be). At any rate, the question was also about this movie - I wondered how many times Richard's actual hands were filmed in the "close up" shots as they would zoom in on the actors hands playing - like at the Hollywood Bowl Battle of the Bands, and throughout the movie. It just isn't the actor who is playing Richard, one can easily see.....and, so I think to myself, why would they use anyone elses hands, when Richard was on set as Executive Producer, anyway....it MUST be his hands they filmed....but I don't know that for sure......Becky remarked to me on the phone that Richard absolutely hates that movie, which I was already aware of, and that he oftentimes wouldn't even touch questions regarding it. We'll see....she thought, since this was more a technical question, he might give me an answer. I'll let you know when I learn something new. Tim
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Post by Ming on Mar 23, 2006 1:29:22 GMT -5
Richard absolutely hates that movie Tim I am wondering why Richard hates the movie. It didn't show the truth? Ming
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 23, 2006 2:47:34 GMT -5
I have magazine named T&B For California Collegiates. It was just a little local publicatin. I don't remember how came about it. It's the November 1988 edition and features an excellent story on the movie. They even managed to interview Cynthia Gibb.
Here's a comment Gibb made for the interview:
"We were shooting in their house, with the parents standing by, and I had to be dead on the floor of their house. These paramedics were picking me up and taking me away in this ambulance," Gibb recalls. Her voice quivers slightly. And it was the same paramedics that had taken her away when she actually died."
Before Gibb made this comment the magazine described that she was actually wearing Karen's clothes in the movie.
As for Richard's feelings on the movie. I feel he has a right to his viewpoints. I myself feel only lukewarm about the movie. I felt it could have focused more on the person that Karen actually was. Her thoughts, her emotions, her feelings on different aspects of her life. I think they should have spent some time to explore the friendship Karen had with Phil and Karen (Itchy) Ramone. They were both a big part of Karen's life in that last five years. I think it would have been interesting to see one of the visits Dionne Warwick made to Karen while she was in the hospital. I would have liked to see more about Karen's relationship with the band members - most notably Tony Peluso. I felt the movie only skimmed the surface of the topics at hand. Don't get me wrong I like the movie, but feel it was not deep enough to capture the true essence of the complex, intelligent, talented, blessed, dark, motivated, obsessive, happy, sad, genuine, beautiful person Karen really was.
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Post by enigma on Mar 23, 2006 12:28:29 GMT -5
. Don't get me wrong I like the movie, but feel it was not deep enough to capture the true essence of the complex, intelligent, talented, blessed, dark, motivated, obsessive, happy, sad, genuine, beautiful person Karen really was. Rick that would take more than a movie to do that more like a mini series and it still would not tell the whole story. The movie was OK I felt it was not telling the whole story and not really accurate some things in the movies did not happen the same way as far as I have read in interviews and I really did not get much of a picture of who Karen was it covered basically what any biography would and little else. The portrayals of K&R were not great or very convincing to me. I did enjoy the movie and it may be useful to get a real general idea of some of who Karen was but I cannot say I loved the movie I just liked it,
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Post by cam83 on Mar 23, 2006 15:18:09 GMT -5
I thought the movie was great for what it was...a TV movie. It shed light on the story to a degree...it ushered in new fans, as evidenced in the skyrocketing record sales after movie was aired and was the TOP movie/show for that week, and second most watched movie of the year!! And also, for a tv movie, it was quite good...using Karen's orgional outfits, same ambulance and ambulance paradmedics...they used the Newville House...I think Cynthia Gibb did a great job for how short of time she had to prepare...learn all the songs, drumming techniques...prepare for the role, and how hard it must have been for her to try and question who Karen was to others close around Karen...and to face a brick wall to some extent...and to have those parents there must have been overwhelming when you are trying to do your craft...but she pulled off a convincing Karen...and you get the essence of who Karen was during the movie.
My thoughts, Cam
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Post by YesterdayOnceMore on Mar 23, 2006 22:19:00 GMT -5
;D ;D Wow you all, thanks for the information. I knew the house looked like what I know of the Newville house, so it makes sense that it was, in fact. But to have used the actual paramedics and the same identical ambulance? ? I find that to be a bit spooky, and perhaps going just a tad over the top for authenticity's sake. I can understand Cynthia wearing Karen's clothing for that reason - and especially because we would have recognized some of the outfits - for example, the yellow outfit Karen wore (pant suit, I think) when she meets Lucy in the restaurant for lunch prior to heading to the condo in Century City - that outfit looked very familiar, as did the green striped gown KC was wearing when she collapsed (in the movie). I have to agree with you, Rick and Enigma, and you, Cam. I mean....the movie DIDN't give us much more of a glimpse into the real Karen insofar as things we didn't know about her anyway, and I would have liked to have seen more of the relationship with she, Phil and Itchie Ramone, etc....and maybe some of the band members like Russell and Liberty while KC was in New York.....but Cam is right - it was a made for TV movie, and there is only so much time allotted for one of those. Now, they might have done it as a mini-series, and then I think it certainly have included a lot more of the details we would have liked to have learned about - more on Richard's addiction as it coincided with Karen's going to NYC to record with Phil and Billy's band. More about her marriage disaster to Tom Burris - more about the family dynamics that seemed to rule both of their lives - the boyfriends/Richard's girlfriends and how Karen didn't seem to like ANY of them, not just Randy Bash....but a smattering of the Maria story and the problems with Sedaka....that would have been fun to watch, as well. Many things had to be left out - so we got a skeletal viewing of what someone thought were the most important notable "facts" if you can call them that - I don't think Richard would - I think he would call them "made-up" for the sake of movie magic. Nevertheless, all of that having been said...I do enjoy watching the movie. (I had no idea mom and pop Carpenter were around the house watching it being filmed, though. Big Kudos to Cynthia and (I think his name is Anderson) for being able to deal with THAT. Wow....that would be enough to drive anyone over the edge...especially Cynthia trying to play a dying Karen in front of her parents.....that would be very difficult and tense, I would think. Overall, I like it. I enjoy watching it, and I take away from it enjoyment seeing acted out things that we already knew about them were true - their grueling touring schedule - their difficult family dynamics - their disagreements over each others more intimate relationships - their being in the recording studio and how they loved it.....that part to me is great fun to watch being "acted out." Thanks for all the great info about it, those of you in the "know." Tim ;D ;D
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Post by Cameron on Mar 24, 2006 0:06:42 GMT -5
Mitchell Anderson played Richard Carpenter. I think, had RIchard done the movie after 1996 when his mother passed on, it would be a movie more geared to showing life as it was, with all the struggles. It would have been a bit more in depth. Also in that day, I am sure RC felt pressured to do the movie...and so he was involved with it...and wishes he wasn't nowadays...but it was a great movie esp for those not knowing the Carpenters and who they were...it ushered in new fans, and a new look at their music...and a wave of newfound popularity was welcomed in...
My thoughts, Cam
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 24, 2006 10:22:31 GMT -5
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Post by Cameron on Mar 24, 2006 18:17:26 GMT -5
Well I would have to disagree. It was a GREAT movie! For several reasons...one, that Richard was involved in...so there would be some truth to it, some clout...It featured Carpenters music, as well as the unreleased YOU'RE THE ONE and WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE? songs...it had the Newville and Lubec Street homes, as well as gold records, awards, memorabelia, Karen's wardrobe...Imagine someone doing a movie, and not featuring Richard's involvement...it would not have been that good...The ironic thing about CBS involvement is that Carpenters did their TV Specials for ABC, and NBC for the Make Your Own Kind of Music show...anyhow...there was a lot of interest in the movie...which explains why it hit the top of the Neilson Ratings for the week, and was the second most watched tv movie of the year...that's no small potatoes. For tv movies of the 1970's and 1980's...I can only think of a few...Meredith Baxter Birney in this eating disorder movie...can't remember the name...but good movie...Patty Duke movie with Melissa Gilbert on adoption...Tracey Gold movie For the Love of Nancy, the I Know my First Name is Steven Movie...and those are basically the ones I can remember...but The Karen Carpenter Story is one I always will remember...and I was just a fan for a few months at that time...
Also we are forgetting that this movie made aware of the lethelness of EATING DISORDERS. It made many people aware of what anorexia and bulimia can do...it has been shown in schools, clinics, etc...
I really believe it was a well done movie...I think though because we are fans, we can tear apart the movie...and leave it to shreds...when really we shouldn't be doing that. It's not constructive. The movie was to show Karen's battle with anorexia nervosa and her death from it...and from that viewpoint, it does a really great job on that part. If the movie were called THE CARPENTERS...then it would be a bit of a diff slant...but it was Karen's story...of her rise to fame, and her tragic death with anorexia..."Based on the life and career of the Carpenters most popular singer and details surrounding her tragic death in 1983" is what was in my newspaper in December 1988 in Swift Current, Saskatchewan, Canada...
Just my thoughts, Cameron
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 25, 2006 1:09:43 GMT -5
. Don't get me wrong I like the movie, but feel it was not deep enough to capture the true essence of the complex, intelligent, talented, blessed, dark, motivated, obsessive, happy, sad, genuine, beautiful person Karen really was. Rick that would take more than a movie to do that more like a mini series and it still would not tell the whole story. You are so right Engima. It would take a three part miniseries to capture the story better. I don't think that will ever happen - but than again you never know.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 25, 2006 1:27:04 GMT -5
I really believe it was a well done movie...I think though because we are fans, we can tear apart the movie...and leave it to shreds...when really we shouldn't be doing that. It's not constructive. Just my thoughts, Cameron What you say is true Cam. Yes, the movie was extremely popular - no doubt about that. And the movie also had great music in it. I also think it was neat the way they used a lot of authentic items such as clothes, houses, etc. Most of all it also brought an awareness of a disease which many people really didn't know much about. The movie should be applauded for that.
But, I also feel that I am entitled to my viewpoint. And I am not ripping the movie to shreds. But as far as it's cinematic qualities I truly feel the movie is just "good" - but even that is subjective. I guess it depends on which perspective you're looking from. For the qualities I mentioned in the prior paragraph the movie is yes "great". But also for many other reasons - more technical - as opposed to emotional - the movie is "good". Nevertheless, I still watch the movie atleast once a year. And I enjoy it every time I watch it.
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Dave
Ultra Emissary
"sleeping in the arms of the cosmos..."
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2006 6:15:15 GMT -5
Since I've never seen it, I can't comment on it's artistic merit. But what is the problem is the fact that you are trying to compress a lifetime into an hour and a half (without commercials) and it's inevitable that some important things are going to be lost in the shuffle. Not knowing Richard, but having read his comments about the movie in the album liner, I often muse as to why he doesn't try to "correct" the film by telling the story himself. Maybe he just doesn't want to open himself up to critics again, as like buzzards circling carrion, they'd be there to rip his heart out. I thought about why the family allowed filming in their home, even to the point of using Karen's clothing. Surely this would've ripped any healing that had come completely off their souls. When I was in high school, the kid who sat across the lunch table from me was struck by a car and killed while crossing a street in the fall of our senior year. His parents were devastated, and kept his room in exactly the same order as when he died, hoping for his return. You're not supposed to have to bury your children. It violated the natural order of life. I wonder whose idea it was to film under these conditions anyway. Maybe that's one reason why Richard dislikes the film, because of all the emotions its filming brought back. The family certainly could've objected, but perhaps it was decided to go ahead anyway because even in its "flawed" condition, it gets the most important message across. I'd love to see Richard and John compose an autobiographical album, on the order of Elton John's "Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy".
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Post by enigma on Mar 25, 2006 8:08:37 GMT -5
I agree that it would be nice for Richard to tell this story it is time for another Karen Carpenters story. If Richard does not want to disclose everything so be it I would not expect him to tell everything he has not to this day and wont ever likely tell the entire story. What I would like to see is Richard participate in a new Karen Carpenter story as he sees fit its been almost 17 years since the first story first aired so why not do a new and proper version that Richard can be proud of and that he likes. Better yet do a movie for theaters I mean Under The Sea, Ray and I Walk The Line were all popular movies in the theaters and in the past other films on lives of artists have been sucessful and the latter 2 films had the participation of the artists they were about (Johnny Cash and June Carter and Ray Charles respectively). I would love to see Karens story told again improving on the made for TV movie it would also get the Carpenters exposed to a whole new audience that probably has never heard of them. Obviously it can be done but the Question is will Richard allow it to be made and participate in the movie it would be great but probably wont get done which is a shame. Just some thoughts here.
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Post by Rick Henry on Mar 25, 2006 10:44:17 GMT -5
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Post by GoodOldDreams on Mar 25, 2006 11:47:13 GMT -5
I feel that the docudrama was merely "good" over all, although I really wanted this movie to be "great," especially since it focused on the very people and music for which I hold the utmost esteem to this very day. While it should be applauded for its sincerity and courage in providing some candid revelations and insights about Karen's personal life and anorexia retrospectively, I found the movie awkwardly executed. Having seen Todd Haynes' more critical and edgier "Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story" (at a midnight theatrical showing before Richard sued the filmmaker to keep it from circulation), I recognize how important it is to have the principal actors who looked and sounded (speaking voice-wise) right in their respective roles. Surprisingly, Haynes' Barbie and Ken re-enactments were much more effective in these regards (despite its often exaggerated, fictionalized or editorializing content). While Mitchell Anderson was fine in his role as Richard and Cynthia Gibbs was earnest in her portrayal of Karen, I felt she never convincingly evoked the essence of Karen in appearance or in voice, a major flaw. I know this is a tall order, as most tribute bands and wannabes fail to strike a close resemblance to the Carpenters as well. Even though the original made-for-TV revived major public interest in the Carpenters, I think the time is long overdue to produce a better re-make of the movie to put the Carpenters' musical legacy in its rightful place in history. Maybe Jennifer Love Hewitt can do Karen justice.
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Dave
Ultra Emissary
"sleeping in the arms of the cosmos..."
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2006 14:49:06 GMT -5
"Maybe Jennifer Love Hewitt can do Karen justice."
You probably think the same things I do when we watch "Ghost Whisperer"
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